On an old post from early last summer, someone recently asked a few questions that I felt would better be answered under a new topic. To summarize, those questions were:
Why is the Fraser train loaded where it is, and what determines the schedule? What is the "Inspiration Point" train?
How do we assign where trains arrive when returning from a trip?
Do we still use train numbers?
What kind of seating options are available?
How does the bus service operate from Whitehorse?
Let me preface this by saying we usually get a new timetable each year and the past couple of years have been spent fine tuning the schedule. One aspect of this has involved finding which hourly departure times work best for accommodating rolling-multiple-train meets and the unpredictability of the Fraser service departing on time. Our chief dispatcher told me when he was working on the schedule for the 2023 season, he built it around the Fraser service because it can impact the other trains more easily than others. Two factors keep this train from leaving on time:
1. The Fraser train boards its passengers in Skagway at the east end of 12th Avenue and collects those passengers from any of the ships in town for the day, unlike the summit trains which only board passengers from one ship per train. This requires Fraser-bound passengers to board a bus as a group, and the bus driver is one of the first check points to make sure these people all have their passports. Sometimes they wait a long time for someone to go back onto the ship to retrieve a passport, delaying the whole group. More often, bus drivers have to wait for a gangway change or the ship may be taking a long time performing tendering operations if they are on the Railroad Dock. I'd say the average delay (when it happens) for the train departing Skagway is 5-15 minutes. The current schedule for Fraser Service No. 21 is to depart at 7:55 AM. Summit Service No. 31 (and following sections) are scheduled 5 minutes later at 8:00 AM. Likewise, Carcross Service No. 1 obtains its passengers in the same manner (bussed passengers) and departs from the depot. It's got a bit more padding on the timetable clock leaving at 7:45 AM, but you can see how a late docking ship or other issue can start stacking up the morning lineup, especially if No. 1 and 21 are delayed from the same root cause.
2. Customs at Fraser can pile up, especially on ferry mornings. Certain ferries (Alaska State Ferry from Bellingham) unload a huge amount of RV's and road trippers early in the morning, and the Canadian Border Services gets slammed with a parade of cars and trucks, and then two passenger trains. If No. 1 was held up departing Skagway as described above, then No. 21 is right behind them. The customs personnel at Fraser have been really good to the railroad but they have an important job to do and we do everything we can to make their jobs go as smoothly as possible, sometimes that involves No. 22 departing Fraser very late. This starts to throw a wrench into the circuit of Summit trains operating down below.
All said, Summit trains can be held up by a late ship or issues with tendering on the dock. However, most of the time we keep the place running on time or can recover from delays. One day last summer we recovered around 10 hours of total delays (spread across all the trains over the course of the day) for some forgotten reason, and by the final two departures, we were right on time. I've said it before, one of the coolest places to see White Pass operations is at the junction by the depot because getting trains turned and ready for their second departure is where we get a lot of that time back, and you can see it all at the junction. Somebody caught some of the switching at that location on a typical, laid-back day last summer and posted it to Youtube. I'll post a separate link with some descriptions later.
Now for the first question posed, with all of the above in mind, I do not know if the schedule is changing in 2024. There is supposed to be a new offering that is not on the company website yet, but I don't think it will impact the schedule. Depending on traffic, trains can be earlier or later than the times indicated. The "Inspiration Point" train that is still posted on the company website (
wpyr.com) was a temporary necessity at the end of this season due to bridge work at 18A, so trains could not make it all the way to White Pass.
As of Timetable 191:
Carcross Service
No. 1 - Dpt. Skagway - 7:45A - Boulder - 7:59 - N. Glacier - 8:33 - White Pass - 8:57 - Arr. Fraser - 9:19 - Dpt. - 9:29 - Arr. Bennett - 10:10 - Dpt. - 10:55 - Arr. Carcross - 12:15P
No. 2 - Dpt. Carcross - 1:00P - Arr. Bennett - 2:20 - Dpt. 3:05 - Arr. Fraser - 3:45 - Dpt. - 3:55 - White Pass - 4:17 - *S. Glacier 4:47 - ^Boulder - 5:16 - Arr. Skagway - 5:30
*Meets No. 51, ^Meets No. 53
Fraser Service
No. 21 - Dpt. Skagway - 7:55A - Boulder - 8:09 - N. Glacier - 8:43 - White Pass - 9:07 - Arr. Fraser - 9:29
No. 22 - Dpt. Fraser - 10:15A - *Divide - 10:34 - ^S. Glacier 11:06 - Boulder - 11:35 - Arr. Skagway - 11:49
*Meets. No. 33, ^Meets No. 35
No. 23 - Dpt. Skagway - 1:15P - Boulder - 1:29 - *S. Glacier - 1:58 - White Pass - 2:27 - Arr. Fraser - 2:49
No. 24 - Dpt. Fraser - 3:25P - ^Divide - 3:44 - S. Glacier 4:16 - +Clifton - 4:34 - Boulder - 4:49 - Arr. Skagway - 5:03
*Meets. No. 42, ^Meets No. 45, +Meets No. 51
Summit Service
No. 31 - Dpt. Skagway - 8:00A - Boulder - 8:14 - N. Glacier - 8:48 - Divide - 9:15
No. 32 - Dpt. White Pass - 9:20A - *S. Glacier 9:49 - Boulder - 10:18 - ^Shops - 10:23 - Arr. Skagway - 10:32
*Meets. No. 33, ^Meets No. 35
(This train usually has a second section)
No. 33 - Dpt. Skagway - 9:00A - Boulder - 9:14 - *S. Glacier - 9:43 - Divide - 10:15
No. 34 - Dpt. White Pass - 10:20A - ^S. Glacier - 10:59 - Boulder - 11:33 - Arr. Skagway - 11:42
*Meets. No. 32, ^Meets No. 35
(This train usually has a second section)
No. 35 - Dpt. Skagway - 10:15A - *Shops - 10:24 - Boulder - 10:29 - ^S. Glacier - 10:58 - Divide - 11:30
No. 36 - Dpt. White Pass - 11:35A - S. Glacier - 12:04P - +Clifton 12:30 - Boulder - 12:45 - Arr. Skagway - 12:59
*Meets. No. 32, ^Meets No. 35, 22, +Meets No. 41
No. 41 - Dpt. Skagway - 12:00P - Boulder - 12:14 - *Clifton - 12:29 - N. Glacier - 12:48 - Divide - 1:15
No. 42 - Dpt. White Pass - 1:20P - ^S. Glacier - 1:59 - +Boulder - 2:28 - Arr. Skagway - 2:42
*Meets. No. 36, ^Meets No. 43, 23, +Meets No. 43
(This train usually has a second section)
No. 43 - Dpt. Skagway - 1:00P - Boulder - 1:14 - *S. Glacier - 1:43 - Divide - 2:15
No. 44 - Dpt. White Pass - 2:20P - ^S. Glacier - 2:59 - Boulder - 3:28 - Arr. Skagway - 3:42
*Meets. No. 42, ^Meets No. 45
(This train usually has a second section)
No. 45 - Dpt. Skagway - 2:15P - *Boulder - 2:29 - ^S. Glacier - 2:58 - Divide - 3:30
No. 46 - Dpt. White Pass - 3:35P - S. Glacier - 4:04 - +Clifton - 4:30 - Boulder - 4:45 - Arr. Skagway - 4:59
*Meets. No. 42, ^Meets No. 44, +Meets No. 51
No. 51 - Dpt. Skagway - 4:00P - Boulder - 4:14 - *Clifton - 4:33 - ^S. Glacier - 4:47 - Divide - 5:18
No. 52 - Dpt. White Pass - 5:22P - +S. Glacier - 5:51 - Boulder - 6:20 - Arr. Skagway - 6:34
*Meets. No. 46, 24, ^Meets No. 2, +Meets No. 53
No. 53 - Dpt. Skagway - 5:00P - *Boulder - 5:16 - ^S. Glacier - 5:45 - Divide - 6:17
No. 54 - Dpt. White Pass - 6:22P - S. Glacier - 6:51 - Boulder - 7:20 - Arr. Skagway - 7:34
*Meets. No. 2, ^Meets No. 52
Note: Trains that operate with a second section do not operate from the same dock. They tend to originate with one from Long Siding (Railroad Dock) and one from either Broadway or Ore Dock. Since most trains originate from Long Siding, the alternating departures from that location are lined up as the second section and the engineer will time their arrival back to Skagway to correspond with the opposing train for Long Siding. Example - No. 36 departed Long Siding as No. 35, and needs to drop their passengers off back at that location. The engineer times their arrival to the Skagway depot for 12:59P, while No. 43 departs Long Siding at 1:00P. Some of these lineups require a train to operate below track speed coming south to make the timing at the junction work smoothly. Trains that do not have to worry about this spacing are placed ahead of the Long Siding trains for this reason, and it also allows more trains to drop passengers off at the depot instead of returning "straight to the dock". The only other reason trains would return "straight to the dock" is to accommodate the departure time of the ship relative to the arrival of a returning train in the afternoon. These decisions are usually made by the passenger department of the railroad and are adjusted as needed by the dispatcher, yard crew, or the train crew when specific situations arise.
The crews operating No. 51 and 53 usually do three runs a day, a couple days a week depending on ticket sales. Those trains are one of the 31/41/51 or 33/43/53 combinations. In addition, I believe the longest distance trains started with the lowest number. If the track was in service to Whitehorse, that was No. 1/2. I'm not aware of train numbers indicating shorter trips historically, but these days 1-2 are Carcross. 21-24 for Fraser, 31-54 for Summits. 31 at 8:00, 33 at 9:00, 35 at 10:15, then changes every four hours to the next set. Steam has been operated mostly as a work extra, or occasionally would carry No. 13/14 but that train number is not included in the current timetable.
It was asked if White Pass & Yukon still uses train numbers for identification. These days, we casually use train numbers on our passenger department cheat sheets, but our operating paperwork only uses locomotive numbers to identify trains for meets. For example, "3003S proceed from White Pass to Shops. Clear main track at Glacier and do not depart until 3006N, 3001N, 3005N arrives this location." I personally like the train numbers on my paperwork but its just not necessary or something that's been done for awhile, as we need engine numbers to positively identify other trains for the large number of meets that occur throughout the day.
A huge part of scheduling trains is handled by the incredible work of our Director of Passenger Operations. She is in contact with every ship well in advance and even spends her entire winter planning and scheduling trains for the upcoming season. The amount of things she's anticipated to make a decision on a departure time range from knowing the staff operating on the ship and how well certain ships sell tickets, to worrying about a tidal change 15 miles away in Haines. Along with her, our Road Foreman/Chief Dispatcher designed a great schedule that keeps everyone moving and can assist in recovering lost time, and he's keenly aware of how much time certain trains can make up or be allowed to lose at any given location. Many times, the passenger department will call the dispatch office to notify of a delay involving a large group of passengers or other unplanned situation, and things are set in motion to work around the problem so as not to cause "confusion and delay".
All told, our busiest days (13 revenue departures) we see:
1 - Carcross roundtrip (134.4 miles roundtrip, passengers on this train are one-way and take a bus for the opposite leg) - 1 Crew
2 - Fraser roundtrips (55.6 miles each roundtrip, passengers on this train are one-way and take a bus for the opposite leg) - 1 Crew
10 - Summit roundtrips (42.8 miles roundtrip) - 4 Crews - (2 Crews working 3 turns)
1 - Work Train - 1 Crew
1 - Skagway Yard Job - 1 Crew
Last summer, most trains were 14 cars Monday - Friday, and maybe a couple cars shorter on the weekends. For the most part, aside from the age and build of the car, the passenger experience will be the same. There are two first class cars that sell out quite often and those will be tacked onto the back of 2 summit consists nearly every day of the week. The Carcross train has 6 table cars that passengers ride the entirety of their trip. The tables are used for the on-board lunches served while the train passes along Lake Bennett.
Finally, the bus service from Whitehorse is something I've never directly been involved with, aside from picking up a few passengers on occasion. I believe the service is performed just like the busses in Skagway on one of several operators that work with the many shore excursion offerings around town. Over the summer all the bus drivers and train crews become pretty familiar with each other, and many of them have been coming back for years, just like the career trainmen. As a conductor I do receive WHTO (Whitehorse Ticket Office) tickets regularly from passengers, and I always have a soft spot for them just because they're unique in origin compared to the overwhelming number of tickets sold from the ships. Any questions about riding the train utilizing the bus service could be easily answered by the ticket office at (800) 343-7373.
I hope this paints a better picture of how White Pass operates. I'm looking forward to 2024! If you do come to visit, I cannot encourage anyone enough to take the time to ride the train to or from Carcross. It's worth your time skipping the jewelry stores in Skagway... and the scenery, seeing the line in its geographical entirety, really illustrates why White Pass & Yukon is the "Scenic Railway of the World".
John Hillier
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2023 06:26PM by John C.
