Re: Denver South Park & Pacific 191

This has been an interesting thread to fallow. Time for some official CRRM feedback. I want to try an address as many comments as possible.

first off I'm surprised nobody picked up on the update about D&RGW 346 that was in our telegrapher and got Dan thinking about 191 in the first place.

Lots of comments about historic fabric on 191. Think about it this way lets boil it down to the basics, what we are really talking about is the boiler, frame, running gear, cylinder casting, dome covers, and tender trucks. So the core of the locomotive aside from the tender trucks. The cab, the stack, the pilot, headlight, headlight brackets, tender tank, and tender frame are all new builds or from other locomotives. I can see the argument already being made that so much is already gone so what's the problem with going further and replacing more like the boiler so she can run again. I can also see the argument that we should try to preserve what is left as a cherished artifact, rather than chuck it, just so we can have a DSP&P loco running that also represents an earlier era.

I lean towards the later. Here's why. I have no idea for sure if it is indeed an Iron boiler or not. We could have the material tested, and I probably will in the near future to answer the question once and for all. Still there are only 2 DSP&P locos left, and some argue most of the 9 post dates its time on the DSP&P, so 191 is more original then. For me replacing a boiler is not something I take lightly, it is a huge part of the original fabric. I'm not against replacing one, there is a time and place for it, but again not something to take lightly. I have no idea what kind of condition the cylinder saddle is in, I have not looked at the frame that well, the tires have hallow tread real bad.(Actually that is another area of rumor and misinformation, some say she doesn't have tires like some early locos didn't.) Not everything has to run, there are some wonderful early locos on display in a well set up interpretive way that don't operate. Gov, Stanford at CSRM for example. As John C wrote "CRRM could be more interesting to me by focusing on more interpretive, complete displays instead of operating everything possible on a short loop." and honestly we are currently working towards that end. Another point is that D&RGW 346 does just as good a job for the general public to see what one of the most common types of locos in CO history, an early Baldwin 2-8-0 looks like in operation. The 191 is only a year older, other than it having a bigger pilot, smokestack a box headlight, and lettered DSP&P rather than D&RGW what is the advantage of running it over 346?

I have not been quiet about my thoughts of what to do with 191. I would like it to live indoors, on display and rolled outside on occasion, or placed on permanent display indoors. It depends on where the museum goes in the future. If we were to ever have a large true museum building with large areas for equipment to be put on display much like CSRM has I would place her inside.
My dream would be a cosmetic restoration to her 1880 as built configuration as DSP&P 51, and placed in a well done interpretive scene as if she was on the Palisades rock wall.

Several of you have mentioned how great it would be to see the 191 visit Como as an operational loco. Who says it has to be operable to visit Como? It would be pretty neat to see her staged for photos around the depot and roundhouse.
KevinM wishes she could be somewhere more accessible. well she was for a long time, then things got rearranged and she was moved to her now usual spot over near CB&Q 5629. I have had her at the roundhouse twice in my 7 years at the museum. To be honest 191 has been left sort of far off away from the public for a good reason. Her current condition is the reason. The tender frame is literally falling apart, the cab is just as bad. If she were placed where the public could get up close it would be worse and she would be a large safety concern. So we have het placed to keep folks off of her and to minimize the sight of how bad the cab and tender frame are.

With that said 191 could use your help. We have been hoping to build a new cab and tender frame for some time, however we have not been able to secure a good funding source. We also have not taken the route of our usual fundraising to pay for this work by asking our typical donors for money. Maybe it is time to do so. I agree that as the oldest locomotive in Colorado we need to treat her with her due respect, take better care of her and display her so she can be admired by the public up close.

Jeff Taylor
CRRM curator of equipment and rolling stock.