Rick Steele Wrote:
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> Hi Dan,
>
> I remember when Bob Richardson brought it on to
> the property. The 191 was actually quite a coup
> for him to have acquired. It required that Bob
> obtain a Mexican Locomotive that was originally
> built for the Logging Company in Rhinelander,
> Wisconsin and to swap it for the 191. The
> ex-Washburn & Northern/Thunder Lake Lumber Company
> 7 (now the 191) had been on display for many, many
> years in Rhinelander, Wisconsin. It was the first
> series of DSP&P 2-8-0's and although it was "big"
> for its time, it's time was quickly passed.
>
> The D&RG used an almost identical design for their
> Class 56 2-8-0's which were Baldwin built
> precursers to the C-60 (later C-16) class of
> 2-8-0's.
>
> My thoughts were the same as yours on the 51/191's
> arrival in Golden. However, upon its arrival, the
> darned thing almost fell apart. The front portion
> of the strap iron frame had to be reattached
> because the lead truck was more decorative than
> functional and unloaded at a weird angle. The
> frame of the 191 has been welded together so many
> times that if it was to run, a complete
> replacement would be necessary. The firebox was
> filled with decades of trash that the maintenance
> people in Rhinelander had dumped there. Since the
> locomotive had been on display for so long, there
> were no fittings to speak of left in the cab. The
> cab was falling apart. All of the brass that could
> easily have been removed was long gone. Bob
> Richardson had a Congdon Stack replica built,
> using the original plans for it as well as a
> replica South Park Headlight.
>
> The tender committed suicide when it was unloaded.
> It was basically nothing more than rotten wood
> held together by paint. The tender trucks were of
> two different designs. The tender shell was a
> sieve and also held together by paint and the
> grace of God and was replaced with the tender body
> that was salvaged from Southern Colorado after a
> new tender frame was built..
>
> BUT... It was originally built for the DSP&P. I
> thank our lucky stars the Bob Richardson was able
> to rescue it when he did, or we might not even
> have the carcass that exists today.
>
> Granted, all of this can be "repaired" and much
> has been, cosmetically. Thank You CRRM.
>
> According to Bob the only "South Park" part that
> he found on the entire locomotive was a cab brace
> with "DSP" cast into it. But anyone who has worked
> for a railroad knows that parts were pretty much
> interchangeable between locomotives of the same
> class. The D&RG was a die-hard Baldwin railroad
> when it came to the 2-8-0's and the C&S Didn't
> order Baldwin again until 10 years later after
> having ordered Cooke's and being bequeathed a
> series of Rhode Islands acquired from the U&N.
>
> That being said, I would have to say that the
> locomotive would make a great builders template
> for someone wanting to make a series of small
> locomotives based on a practical prototype (as
> opposed to a Crown).. The folio sheets of both the
> D&RG and the C&S show this locomotive with a
> straight boiler. The D&RG shows that two were
> modified with wagon top boilers. For those
> wondering, the D&RG locomotives were built 1878
> and the C&S were 1880. The tractive effort shown
> for the C&S locos was 13,956 and for the D&RG,
> 13025.6. .
>
> So Dan, I agree with you that a locomotive like
> the 51/191 should be operational somewhere.
> Looking at the size of the locomotive, it seems
> that it would be perfect for a tourist line or
> amusement park somewhere.
>
> So yes, a replica could be built, but using the
> actual 191 would be like jacking the bell and
> rolling a new locomotive under it. Unfortunately,
> it seems a more fitting tribute to the hard life
> of the locomotive for it to remain plinthed.
>
> Rick Steele
Rick,
I don't go as far back at the CRRM a s you do, but I remember Bob Richardson telling me that 191 had a wrought iron boiler. Bob was no metallurgist, but he had sought out some people's advice as well as researching DSP&P records. Some of the work done on 191 was the almost complete replacement of the tender. A replacement tender tank was obtained from the Perins Peak coal mine near Durango. Wally Maxwell was involved in this, remember him? A new frame was fabricated, actually twice as the first attempt was not satisfactory. The original odd trucks were kept. Completed tender was painted. My son and I lettered 191 as DL&G. Later a new cab was fabricated by CRRM volunteers. Bob had the Congdon stack and headlamp fabricated earlier. It would be nice to restore 191, but I don't think it would be feasible. As a poster said you would have to jack up the replaced bell and replace everything underneath it. After a 43 year association with the CRRM my memory is still pretty good . If a rebuild of a piece of equipment uses just a couple of original parts does it qualify as a restoration or a replica?
Bill Gould
High Commander
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2023 03:52PM by HAICH OMANDIER.
