Re: A Shot Across The Bow, My Apologies to Dave, But....

Dave, (also Stathi and John Bush,)

this seems to be a classic Strawman and bringing it up is going to have the resident forum sycophants and cheerleaders after me en-masse; you'd have to be the nicest good bloke, that I haven't actually met, and obviously dedicated(quite rightly so) to the #315...
and therefore until now I've bitten my tongue......but after following this thread, I do believe you've been totally led up the garden path.

You wrote:
"Stathi P. did extensive research on the lettering design, style and placement for engine 168. There are NO KNOWN photos of 425 anywhere. there are a number of them of 424. 423, and lots of 168. The main conclusion is that, there are differences, mainly by who painted then, and what car shop did it. Spacing of #'s seems to be the biggest factor. The kerrning seems to be random, and just a visual thing by that days painter, It's not unheard of that the two sides of a locomotive didn't exactly match, And that style changed between locomotives ( much like the RGS crooked sunrise logo.)
(see: [ngdiscussion.net] )

What is apparent to me, is the mixing of various eras and not concentrating only on examples of the D.&R.G. (on Cabside) X X X on Tankside paint&lettering pre-1923. And even mentioned considering Tank/Tender changes(not done before '23 DENVER & RIO GRANDE WESTERN era) that came about for both 315 and 168 in later years.

and your reiteration again,

"OK guys, I'll say again... The mission I excepted was to cut and apply the new Matt vinyl, in as close as a match as I could to match the style and size of 168, that was well researched. The intent was to create a matched pair of time period D.& R. G. locomotives. The intent was for the iron horse event to have a matched pair."
These are a match to the 168... thou with different numbers and spacing they may look different, and part of that may be the physical size of the tank it self. "
(see: [ngdiscussion.net] )

Again, to me it is apparent that the Numerals have a constant spacing(non-constipated), start at the rear Brake hangers of the Tender front truck, and end above the rear trucks leading axle journalbox. That seems to have been the standard, regardless of "painter digression". This is shown in many historical photos, and even with the "visually" short slope-back tank of the 450's, there was no constipating of the Numerals.


and the final offering,
"So for comparison, Here is the latest photos of 168, Note the kerning....[ngdiscussion.net]Again The lettering for 168 was extensively researched, and a good match up between 168 and 425 will make for some great photos latter.. "
(see: [ngdiscussion.net] )


Apparently, this little exercise was lost to history, (see: [ngdiscussion.net] )




That is a segment of Dave Grandt's Photo (see: [ngdiscussion.net] ) side by side with the 2019 rollout picture of the 168, that hasn't apparently been changed since then, and my raised objections.

Dave, what you've said conflicts with what Stathi actually replied to my post in a previous thread....
"Chris et al,
Regarding spacing I will point out the tender is also different. By best judgement, the tender we have is actually the 166’s and is somewhat smaller than the one in the photo above. Whatever became of 168’s original tender is lost to history, so for the rehabilitation we did not “create” a conjectural tender based upon photos, but chose to rehabilitate the tender as the real artifact it is. Getting back to the lettering, we made it fit visually based upon the scaling of tank size. Although one may or may not agree with the approach, this was the reasoning behind what you see. "
(see: [ngdiscussion.net] )

And so in that thread, I left it at that, because I had previously posted this picture from the Salida Library.



Just how clear a side-on spaced 1 6 8 do you need to see, now see what has transpired and been ignominiously perpetrated on "425".



In reality, the actual D&RGW Shop forces would have just yanked out of the deadline any old Tender(or tank) that didn't leak, one that wasn't needed behind whatever that was in service at that time, and unceremoniously stuck it on the arse of the 168, so as to keep it available until its flue time expired.

Because it was just another part in the parts inventory, they didn't attach a Brass Plaque to its side commemorating what Loco(s) it had served behind either.


Political Correctness has NO PLACE in a Restoration. Because of that decision, we now see the results of duplication of an error unwittingly carried out by Dave2-8-0.

And now to the Public and paying attendees of the IHR, there is a matched pair of Constipated Distortion being offered up as "historical" renditions of the D.& R.G. past.

Worse still.... an awful lot of people are going to be convinced that rendition is accurate, portrayed at the "Living Museum".



"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled." - Mark Twain