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Re: 35 years of history *LINK*

September 20, 2005 12:30PM
What have we learned in the past 35 years about operating, preserving and growing the Cumbres & Toltec RR? I can’t help thinking of the old parable about giving a man a handout vs. teaching him to fish or cultivate a crop so he won’t go hungry is analogous to the long term future of the Cumbres & Toltec. It would appear that some strategic planning/marketing would return the investment and is absolutely critical to the RRs survival. Sorry to be so blunt but creating separate funds to save this or that is just not helping solve the bigger problem of creating a sustainable tourist RR.
Perhaps a detailed marketing plan has been done by one of the operators at some point, if someone knows this to be a fact then I am wondering where the data, plan and/or reports may now reside. 70,000 people rode the RR in 1998 so what were the factors that resulted in this level of ridership? I would call your attention to the linked 5 year Capital Improvement plan created by the current operator. I am wondering where we are vis-à-vis the plan given $20 million is required for ROW improvements and we are now heading into the second of year of this plan. It is interesting to note that both engines # 492 and # 497 were to undergo restoration in this fiscal year which started July 1, 2005.
Here are some observations some of which may be “controversial” but honestly they need to be dealt with or I am afraid the problems of the past will continue to resurface.
1. Rethink how the RR is operated
Many tourists really don’t want an all day excursion on a RR. As much as we may enjoy the experience I submit many people would just as soon not invest a full day riding a train. If we look back on the D & RGW San Juan as our “model” then it is possible to make the one way 64 mile trip from Antonito to Chama in a little over 3 hours (assuming track is upgraded). Since the economic benefits to the communities (most directly Chama and Antonito) and to a lesser extent surrounding locations is better served by having tourists dine in the local towns elimination of the Osier lunch stop may have more economic benefit for merchants as well as reducing the ticket price. Again this is assuming that multiple train(s) would make both a morning departure and early afternoon departures from Antonito/ Chama and arrive mid day and early evening (roundtrip still possible ala D&S schedule). This increases the tourist presence and spreads visitors to each location over the course of the day. Return bus transportation one way would still be required whether trains departed Chama or Antonito for one way riders. The eastbound train could also be timed to drop passengers at Cumbres for return on the westbound while through passengers would continue to Antonito or given sufficient demand Cumbres turns could be made.
2. Market the experience as a package
The impact on how many visitors stay over in Chama is the big unknown and probably one reason the current all day trip creates more overnight visitors in Chama. Who is looking at the big picture though of the tourist experience vis-a-vis quality control (restaurants, motels and ancillary merchants) and related activities to enhance the visitor experience before or after riding the train? The chambers of commerce and RR need to do more to ensure that tourist’s needs/ experience are a key focus. It is not just all about riding the train! This is a tall order given this effort is only 5 1/2 months of the year which is partly why I don’t think Chama will ever be able to duplicate the infrastructure that Durango has (nor would many want it to). So attracting tourists to the area may have to draw to a larger degree on day tourists and tours. This is where this whole discussion gets politically messy as the railroads purpose and economic benefits to the communities are so intertwined. The railroad needs more passengers to prosper and meet its commitment to the states and the community wants to see the economic benefits trickle down to the merchants/ residents. How do you do both, given the resources available?
So in a nutshell what I am not seeing is an actionable marketing plan that details how the operator meets the long term goals of 1. Meeting the financial commitments to the states as set forth in the 5 year plan while preserving the historic character of the RR and 2. Have both states adopted the 5 year plan for financing the RR in the current fiscal year and beyond regardless of ridership numbers?
Rod Jensen
Subject Author Posted

C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05 *LINK*

roger hogan September 19, 2005 06:14PM

Re: C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05

Jerry Day September 19, 2005 06:28PM

One Has NOTHING to do with the other

Rich Muth September 19, 2005 07:04PM

Re: One Has NOTHING to do with the other

Jerry Day September 19, 2005 07:16PM

Are you smoking strange stuff??

roger hogan September 19, 2005 07:29PM

Re: One Has NOTHING to do with the other

John Cole September 19, 2005 07:50PM

Re: One Has NOTHING to do with the other

Jerry Day September 20, 2005 08:20AM

Just Maybe...

Kevin K. September 20, 2005 10:23AM

Re: Just Maybe...

Jerry Day September 20, 2005 10:41AM

Re: Just Maybe...

Steve Singer September 20, 2005 11:44AM

Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Herb Kelsey September 20, 2005 05:04PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 08:18AM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Don Richter September 21, 2005 08:29AM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 08:49AM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Don Richter September 21, 2005 11:04AM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

John Fisher September 21, 2005 12:30PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 12:44PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

"RAWHIDE" September 21, 2005 01:33PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 01:44PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

John Kyler September 21, 2005 01:45PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Greg Scholl September 21, 2005 03:43PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Craig Kumler September 21, 2005 05:53PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Greg Scholl September 21, 2005 06:59PM

Little to lose, maybe much to gain, from History

Russ Sperry September 23, 2005 08:09PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

John Kyler September 21, 2005 01:26PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 01:36PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

John Kyler September 21, 2005 01:50PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

Steve Stockham September 21, 2005 02:30PM

Re: Jerry Is Absolutely Right

rick b September 22, 2005 12:18PM

Grande Gold

Greg Scholl September 21, 2005 03:49PM

Re: Grande Gold

Jerry Day September 21, 2005 04:48PM

Train of many colors

Bryan Laue September 21, 2005 11:09PM

Forcasting

Dick Seelye September 19, 2005 07:52PM

Forcasting

roger hogan September 19, 2005 08:40PM

Re: C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05

John Frank September 19, 2005 07:56PM

Ridership

roger hogan September 19, 2005 08:24PM

Re: Ridership

RichB September 19, 2005 08:34PM

Re: Ridership

John Frank September 19, 2005 08:42PM

Ridership

roger hogan September 19, 2005 09:01PM

Re: Ridership

Chile John September 19, 2005 09:42PM

Good idea

roger hogan September 19, 2005 09:47PM

Re: Ridership

frank martindell September 20, 2005 11:06AM

numbers

Bill Kepner September 20, 2005 07:55AM

Re: numbers

Craig LeVay September 20, 2005 08:27AM

Re: numbers

Craig Kumler September 20, 2005 11:19AM

Re: numbers

frank martindell September 20, 2005 11:08AM

saving on gas

John Cole September 20, 2005 12:45PM

Re: C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05 *LINK*

Linn W. Moedinger September 20, 2005 06:21AM

Re: C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05

Tom Stewart September 20, 2005 10:56AM

Re: C&TSRR Commission Meeting 9-19-05

Don Richter September 20, 2005 11:15AM

Statistics and forecasting

John West September 20, 2005 11:25AM

Re: Statistics and forecasting

Chile John September 20, 2005 11:40AM

Expect from the Railroad????

roger hogan September 20, 2005 12:06PM

Re: 35 years of history *LINK*

Rod Jensen September 20, 2005 12:30PM

Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

John West September 20, 2005 12:56PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

Yosemite Sam September 20, 2005 01:35PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

Don Richter September 20, 2005 02:25PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

RichB September 20, 2005 03:33PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

John Cole September 20, 2005 04:15PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

Chama-Antonito business hours September 21, 2005 02:11PM

Chama-Antonito business hours

Mark Valerius September 21, 2005 02:23PM

Re: Is Chama pricing itself out of the market?

Paul Gibbs September 20, 2005 04:24PM

Re: advertising

Cal Smith September 20, 2005 09:21PM

Sumpter Valley... a success model?

RG September 21, 2005 02:06PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... a success model?

Greg Scholl September 21, 2005 03:53PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... a success model?

Jerry September 21, 2005 07:36PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... a success model?

J.B.Bane September 22, 2005 09:20AM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

Russ Sperry September 23, 2005 06:57PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

dan September 23, 2005 09:00PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

Jerry September 23, 2005 09:59PM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

RBrinton September 24, 2005 08:11AM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

J.B.Bane September 24, 2005 09:25AM

Re: Sumpter Valley... Proximity to I-80

dan September 24, 2005 10:50AM

The right way, wrong way & what you have to

roger hogan September 20, 2005 04:03PM

Re: The right way, wrong way & what you have to

Steve Stockham September 20, 2005 05:42PM

Village vs C&TSRR (Politiciains)

roger hogan September 20, 2005 08:42PM

Find a Sugar-Daddy or Remain a Poor Orphan

Herb Kelsey September 21, 2005 01:47PM

Some West rambles

John West September 22, 2005 12:42AM

Not Crap

dan September 22, 2005 02:56PM

Re: Not Crap

John West September 22, 2005 03:25PM

politics

dan September 22, 2005 05:31PM

Re: NPS - NOT Crap

Russ Sperry September 23, 2005 07:16PM

Re: NPS - NOT Crap

John West September 23, 2005 09:14PM

Re: NPS - NOT Crap

Chile John September 24, 2005 08:05AM

Re: Not Crap

Mik September 22, 2005 03:26PM

Re: Not Crap

Steve Singer September 22, 2005 04:05PM

Re: Not Crap

John Cole September 22, 2005 05:05PM

The flip side

John West September 22, 2005 05:10PM

Re: Find a Sugar-Daddy or Remain a Poor Orphan

Hobosteve September 23, 2005 04:26AM

A sole "glimpse of the past"?

Charles September 23, 2005 10:35AM

Re: A sole "glimpse of the past"?

Jerry Day September 23, 2005 12:15PM

Re: D&S also a "glimpse of the past"

Russ Sperry September 23, 2005 07:34PM

Re: Find a Sugar-Daddy or Remain a Poor Orphan

Herb Kelsey September 26, 2005 11:16PM

Historical Interest on the D&S?

Herb Kelsey September 26, 2005 11:21PM

Re: Historical Interest on the D&S?

Philip Walters September 27, 2005 08:03AM

Re: Historical Interest on the D&S?

John Cole September 27, 2005 01:39PM

Re: Historical Interest on the D&S?

Fritz Klinke September 27, 2005 06:13PM

How I like to ride both CATS & D&S

Philip Walters September 28, 2005 08:33AM

HISTORY on D&S helps C&TS, and Vice Versa

Russ Sperry September 27, 2005 11:40PM

Thanks Russ for suprise!

Philip Walters September 29, 2005 06:52PM

Re: Find a Sugar-Daddy or Remain a Poor Orphan

Bob Jennings September 23, 2005 05:24AM

Trying Isn't Enough

Herb Kelsey September 26, 2005 11:35PM

Re: Trying Isn't Enough

Rod Jensen September 26, 2005 11:56PM

Re: Trying Isn't Enough

Curt Bianchi September 27, 2005 08:29AM

Re: Trying Isn't Enough *LINK*

Rod Jensen September 27, 2005 11:01AM

Re: Trying Isn't Enough

Curt Bianchi September 27, 2005 11:53AM



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