Re: How many cars can Hawaii #12 pull up the Loop?

Considering that we are both only able to look at books and attempt to fit some old facts into a current situation we should remember that anything with come up with is speculation at best. For all we know there was something about the climb up Dallas Divide from Ridgway that limited tonnage more than the climb up Boreas. Maybe the RGS factored in that the generally worn out condition of their locomotives and track, perhaps the C&S was on crack when they came up with the tonnage ratings for Boreas. (Why would a C16 be good for only 70 tons up Dallas Divide and an equivilant C&S 2-8-0 rated for 110 tons up Boreas? Who knows)
Anyway, I chose the Breckenridge to Boreas segment for my calculations because this is where the C&S rated their engines for the least tonnage. I was trying to look at it from a worst case standpoint.
The interesting thing is that we are only a car or so apart in our random, speculative calculations. Given the speculative nature of both of our calculations, the negativity and sarcasm in your post hardly seems justified. To me it would appear that your calculations have an agenda behind them. I was curious to know what #12 could possibly pull and set out to see if I could answer the question based on what information I could find. I guess my point here is that you could have presented your facts with out the biting comments about "clossed circuit tv's, turned away passengers etc",and let them speak for themselves. All of that extra srcasm makes your calculations seem suspect at best.
A couple of other points, by the time I took out the drop doors, what passed for a floor, the top board, cut doors in the ends etc, I would guess that the drop bottom cars, as converted, weigh the same or less than they did before the conversion. (This is a rough guess based on how much removed stuff I carried to the dumpster from each car vs. how much new stuff I carried from the trailer to each car) Granted the drop bottoms still weigh a little more than the high sides, but the assumption that every passenger on the car will weigh 200 pounds should cover that.
Anyway, you are correct that time will tell the answer to this question. My bet is that Railstar will have an answer long before May 28. Do you really expect, as you imply in your post, that come opening day they will just couple a lot of cars to #12, roll down the hill and see what happens on the way up? Have you ever met and or talked with Mr. Trottier or Mr. Gores? I have and can assure you that they are neither that naive nor stupid.
Jason Midyette