Well, certainly an interesting discussion.
I too heard the story from RWR on the C&S curve condition and the half flanges.
Some thoughts for consideration:
1. As I recollect, neither the 343 or 345 had the half flanges either on the C&S or later on the Grande. However, I don't believe the 343 ever operated after being returned.
2. As for the 346, from the pictures it does appear that there were no half flanges after the repair by the C&S. Too bad they aren't just alittle bit clearer.
3. However, as I remember, the half flanges were only 5/8" tall and roughly the same or maybe 3/4" wide. So as Linn pointed out, one would think with as curvy a railroad as the C&S that some flange "shine" would show up. (It sure did at the museum!) It is unknown exactly the extent of the wreck repair that the C&S performed. More than likely, only as little mechanical work as necessary.
4. As for some of the pictures, one can almost make out a small flange at the inner surface of the tires as Dirk mentions, but then again tire thickness presents a different tale. Kelly makes a good case.
5.Since blind tires were a normal application on the "C" engines, when lateral got out to limit, spring rigging would take a beating with or with out half flanges. Since the blind tires are wider than a regular flanged tire by around an inch, tire overhang of the wheel center rim equalized on both rim face sides. As the standard practice, box laterial was poured babbit and (I recollect) steel plate liners of the lateral faces of the wheel centers.
6. I wondered how the C&S arrived at the 5/8" high limit for the half flanges. And, how they got it OK'd by the ICC. When looking around the D&IM #25 interurban at the museum one day, a suprise. The same basic flange except with a top of flange radius. I believe electric railway engineering association (the equal of the AAR) had a design for that wheel profile including that size flange acceptable for both street and interurban work. So is that how the C&S got the half flanges by the ICC? It is one possibility.
Oh yes, Dick Cooper asked some of the older heads still around in the 1950s about the C-19s, They mentioned that the 346 was kind of the "dog of the C-19s, just not that quick on her feet"!
7. One point of interest, after the 346 was returned, if not immediately but at least by the early 1940s, it did receive another general repair at Alamosa. At that time it received a new firebox. But no new tires. I suspect it may have been the last "C" engine to have that heavy of work done. Did the accident repair the C&S did justify the Grande management to spend some money on one remaining C-19? Who knows.
8. One additonal point of correction of Dirks flange repair description. Before building up of the R4 tire due to a sharp flange condition, after doing research, I discussed the possible repair methods with older foreman at Burnham Shop. It was determined that the tire should be removed from the wheel center, and built up by oxy-acetylene. This was done at a old line weld shop in Denver by two welders and after completion, covered to cool slowly.
8b. While the filler material might be somewhat softer than the original tire steel, it would be easier heat wise on the tire and have less possibility of hard spots when machining or possible stress risers being set up if arc welding were used.
8c. Some of the younger management people at BHM did not think it could be done, but the wheel shop foreman (Gerry Cutshall sp) understood the situation, and figured out it could be done on the Bullard VTL used for machining diesel wheels. Oh yes, he said it was about 0.030" to 0.040" out of round. He asked about how true was the wheel center and if we were going to do anything about it. My answer was we were lucky to this much done. Probably better to leave well enough alone.
8d. There had been too many accidents on various roads documented by ICC reports where flanges had been built up while still on the wheel center with electric weld only to fail a short time after being dispatched from the terminal.
As for the half flanges, well, you just never know do you.
Doggone it Kelly, I'll probably be up half the night thinking about this!
Chris
