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Re: Old South Park Surveys

August 18, 2010 08:33AM
I'll take both of you on. First off, Evans may have complained, but he sold out and wasn't relevant by that time. His griping was no more than an outside irritant. Shippers may have complained, but their rates on the South Park were actually more in line with the average than those offered by the D&RG. Besides, shippers always complain. Today it is the utility companies. Back then it was the mines.

The UP brought the South Park rates into line with the rest of their system. High? perhaps, but Omaha has always had the arrogant attitude that they could do no wrong. You make it sound like the "Rape" of the South Park was intentional, I disagree and contend that it wasn't. The biggest thing that hurt the DL&G was the loss of local control and thus the inability to meet the D&RG rates head-on. The local Superintendent can't set freight rates and back then there was no ICC to referee the rates that were set. When the South Park lost its ability to set its own rates and compete with the D&RG, always a tough and crafty adversary, it simply became another cog in the UP's Railroad wheel. Remember that even General Palmer had control of the D&RG taken away from him, not by another corporation, but by members of his own Board of Directors.

The Gunnison extension was listed as a Pacific outlet in the UP Annual reports until the Silver Market crashed. After that it was referred to as a branch. You make it seem that when the UP got in charge, that all progress stopped. Remember, it was the UP that built Boreas Pass and the extension from Buena Vista to Baldwin, INCLUDING the Alpine Tunnel under Altman Pass. The projected line to the Pacific was included in the UP's plans but ended when the national prosperity did, as did so many other planned UP railroads, like the Union Pacific and Western Colorado Railroad.

Would they have poured all of these dollars into a line that they were intent on sucking dry and casting aside? No. Even then it would have been a stupid business decision and Gould and his cronies (Gould was still involved, according to Maury Klein, one of his biographers, but not on a day-to-day basis) were anything but stupid. Brutal, yes, but stupid, no. They were no different than today's railroad management, but back then their bonuses were not measured in multiple millions, just single ones.

As for the OSL. The OSL was historically the vehicle that the UP System used to make their money. It was the largest PRIVATELY financed and built portion of their system. The OSL didn't come under congressional oversight like the UP did and didn't have a bunch of Congressional mandates of one sort or another governing or hindering its operation. Even E.H. Harriman used the OSL for this purpose after the UP reorganization in 1898. Example: in 1917 the largest stockholder in the New York Central System was not the Vanderbilts. It was the OSL.

Thus, the OSL was more or less the shell that UP management used to funnel the non-UP revenue through to keep prying Washington eyes away from the books.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending what the UP did, I'm just pointing out that their actions were in line with the business practices of the times. The fact that after the UP was stripped of the UPD&G and DL&G lines by the Denver District Court that instead of accepting the decision, Omaha fought it as high up as they could go should tell you something of the importance of the lines to the parent company. It took almost 100 years for the UP to regain a line south out of Denver and lines through Texas (although from the East this time).

Another item which deflates your theory is the fact that after the reorganization of the UPD&G and DL&G into the C&S in 1898 and 1899 is the undeniable fact that Frank Trumbull was able to organize these lines into a profitable entity and even reopen the Alpine Tunnel for traffic. If the DL&G was as raped as you surmise, then there would have been no hope for its survival.

It was after Trumbull followed Edwin Hawley and became the president of the C&O that the C&S began to crumble. The CB&Q had attained control of the C&S lines in 1908 and when Trout Creek Pass washed out in 1910 and was not rebuilt (even though previous administrations had rebuilt and realigned it) but abandoned in place, the death knell was sounding for the old South Park lines. The tunnel "Cave In" was another excuse for abandoning a once necessary line. With these two lines gone, combined with service suspended over Boreas Pass in the 20's, the South Park was doomed and no amount of lawsuits would have saved it. If I were going to point fingers at the reason for the C&S's abandonment of the 3' gauge, I would go past Omaha and to Chicago.

Even if the South Park Line had consistently contributed millions to the bottom line in the previous years, which it didn't, that would have been no guarantee of its survival. Take a look at another Railroad 3' gauge that was based on Mineral Production, the RGS. It was profitable only while Silver was booming. Even in later years with all of the cost cutting by Victor Miller, the RGS only lasted 10 years longer than the last 3' gauge lines of the C&S. As far as a stand-alone railroad, the V&T only lasted 7 years longer than the last of the C&S 3' gauge.

The South Park was a fascinating, beautifully built (I agree wholeheartedly with Mike Rowe on this point) and amazing Railroad. It was overbuilt by John Evans, outflanked by General Palmer at almost every turn. Its alignment was, like the Colorado Midland's, an operations nightmare, especially in the brutal Colorado winters of the late 1800's that sucked a lot of revenue from the bottom line. It had the finest of equipment when built, like the V&T, but the technology was rapidly outmoded and it succumbed to having to purchase more conventional motive power. Technologically, the C&S had better freight equipment than the D&RG, but it came at the expense of using worn out Motive power. Had Trumbull remained the C&S would probably have lasted a few years longer, but ultimately I have to believe that the same fate awaited it.

No, I have not mentioned the Triparte agreement and the alignment to Leadville as this post has gone on way too long.

Now that I've challenged the complacent, Kindig, Haley and Poor and the other South Park Gods, and sided With John Maxwell. I am donning my Asbestos and Kevlar clothing and awaiting the plethora of replies that are sure to follow.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2010 08:36AM by Rick Steele.
Subject Author Posted

Old South Park Surveys

weston1879 August 16, 2010 08:51PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

southparkline1 August 16, 2010 09:30PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

weston1879 August 17, 2010 08:51AM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

Ken Martin August 17, 2010 09:33AM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

hank August 17, 2010 01:08PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys Attachments

mikerowe August 17, 2010 01:48PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

Rick Steele August 17, 2010 10:52PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

weston1879 August 17, 2010 11:36PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

hank August 18, 2010 12:26AM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

Rick Steele August 18, 2010 08:33AM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

Nick August 17, 2010 01:22PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

southparkline1 August 17, 2010 01:47PM

Re: Old South Park Surveys

weston1879 August 17, 2010 02:28PM

New Alpine Tunnel

hank August 17, 2010 06:14PM

Re: New Alpine Tunnel

Charlie Mutschler August 17, 2010 07:18PM

Re: New Alpine Tunnel

hank August 18, 2010 12:15AM

Re: New Alpine Tunnel

Rick Steele August 18, 2010 07:38AM

DSP&P vs UP / CM vs D&RG What If?

hank August 18, 2010 10:12AM

Re: DSP&P vs UP / CM vs D&RG What If?

weston1879 August 18, 2010 11:45AM

Re: DSP&P vs UP / CM vs D&RG What If?

Rick Steele August 19, 2010 12:56AM

Re: DSP&P vs UP / CM vs D&RG What If?

weston1879 August 19, 2010 09:29AM

Re: DSP&P vs UP / CM vs D&RG What If?

Rick Steele August 19, 2010 09:13PM



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