Re: The Pros and Cons of Charters
| March 18, 2018 07:25AM |
Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though I'm still fairly young in this hobby
> of railroad photography and haven't gone on many
> charters, I find myself constantly going way
> outside of the designated photo line. Of course I
> am careful not to get into someone else's shot,
> but I find that either: 1) The location of the
> line is a poor shot (due to mostly my more
> experienced understanding of the line compared to
> others-just a subjective opinion here) or 2) I've
> already gotten the shot before and do not want to
> have the same shot as about 50 other people.
Mike, charters definitely have their pros and cons.
On the good side:
- You'll see operations (freight) that you'll never otherwise see. Almost nobody runs steam-powered freight with vintage rolling stock.
- You'll have do-overs (multiple run-bys) that afford the opportunities for different angles or improvements on existing ones.
- There will be opportunities in sunrise and sunset light, which will almost never exist otherwise.
- Some charter operators, such as Lerro, offer portrait sessions, in which you get to photograph railroad people.
- You get to socialize with others who are like-minded. Bear in mind that there are perhaps 200 people in the country who do this seriously.
On the down-side:
- You'll be somewhat constrained in terms of your shooting perspectives.
- Your shots will, to some extent, be very similar to those of 30-50 other people.
- There will be some situations in which there will be heavy competition for a small "sweet spot" on a given shot, and most likely, someone else will get it and you won't.
From my perspective, the pros definitely outweigh the cons. I get far more great shots from charters than I ever do chasing or photographing normal operations. That's not to say that normal ops don't produce great shots.....just not the percentage of keepers in the same time-span.
> A very well known rail photographer once had a
> debate with me and he mentioned that its important
> to have the best gear and spend money on charters
> so that you can outdo your "competition" (his
> paraphrased words not mine!).
That guy wasn't from Vermont, was he? LOL!
> To me that kind if
> statement is directly against everything the hobby
> stands for and what makes it fun. Yes, I have
> pictures on Railpictures.net, but do I think the
> site is the end all and be all of railroad
> photography? Frankly, and I know some will disagree with me on
> this, I think charters promote this unhealthy
> competition unintentionally.
If there is a "competition", RP is the primary venue where it exits. It might exist on Facebook, but not being a subscriber, I can't say. My impression of Facebook is, to quote one of my colleagues: "Too much noise, not enough signal."
RP.net is the most popular rail-related site on the internet. The screening process, while not perfect, is a form of quality control that other photo sites don't have, and it makes the site attractive to people who appreciate good photography. Having photos there is important if you want your images to be published. Magazine and calendar editors regularly "shop" there, and I have personally gotten a lot of opportunities because of the free publicity that the site provides. Many of the recent opportunities have come from overseas publications, which often pay more than domestic ones. On top of all of that, RP's strict standards have really improved my photography. I think I am a better shooter because of my association with the site.
> On the charters I have been on, I have been handed multiple business
> cards, and shown many pictures by individual
> photographers that I do not even know and without
> me even asking. While I understand people like to
> promote themselves particularly if railroad
> photography is a small side gig for them, I find
> it rather obnoxious. How would you feel if you are
> just looking for conversation with people who
> enjoy the same thing as you do, only to have an
> iPad, which is apparently always ready at the
> moments notice, shoved in your face with the
> individual's work?
My condolences. Perhaps I have not been riding the same charters, but I don't find most of the folks to be quite that aggressive in self-promotion.....at least not on the train. YES, we do compare images and discuss experiences. I very much enjoy the social aspect of these trips. During the trip last week, we had a very long train ride, which afforded me the opportunity to catch up with numerous friends from around the US and beyond. I enjoy seeing their pictures and when I'm not on charters, I do look at their sites and Flickr pages. I get a kick out of seeing their takes on the same trips I was on.....and on places I've never been.
> And the hobby definitely needs promoting. When I'm the youngest individual at a
> charter each time by an average of 30 years,
> something is definitely wrong there.
Mike, I know the impression that charters create. Lots of "old guys" with expensive cameras. I really think there are a lot of young people who enjoy doing this, but the reason why you don't see the charter patronage from them is simply because the young folks are just starting their careers and don't yet have the financial means (or the vacation time) to participate in these events. And yes, they are expensive. I just signed up for one event in which the train ticket alone is close to $1,500. Add in the fact that I'm going to have to fly coast-to-coast, rent a car for a week or more, and put myself up in hotels, and that deal is going to cost more than a Carnival Cruise. That's why a lot of us who do this are on the tail ends of our careers, or even retired. We have no kids, or the kids are married and gone, and we're determined to enjoy the years we have left.
Thanks for the comments. Hope to see you trackside sometime soon!
/Kevin Madore
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2018 07:25AM by KevinM.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though I'm still fairly young in this hobby
> of railroad photography and haven't gone on many
> charters, I find myself constantly going way
> outside of the designated photo line. Of course I
> am careful not to get into someone else's shot,
> but I find that either: 1) The location of the
> line is a poor shot (due to mostly my more
> experienced understanding of the line compared to
> others-just a subjective opinion here) or 2) I've
> already gotten the shot before and do not want to
> have the same shot as about 50 other people.
Mike, charters definitely have their pros and cons.
On the good side:
- You'll see operations (freight) that you'll never otherwise see. Almost nobody runs steam-powered freight with vintage rolling stock.
- You'll have do-overs (multiple run-bys) that afford the opportunities for different angles or improvements on existing ones.
- There will be opportunities in sunrise and sunset light, which will almost never exist otherwise.
- Some charter operators, such as Lerro, offer portrait sessions, in which you get to photograph railroad people.
- You get to socialize with others who are like-minded. Bear in mind that there are perhaps 200 people in the country who do this seriously.
On the down-side:
- You'll be somewhat constrained in terms of your shooting perspectives.
- Your shots will, to some extent, be very similar to those of 30-50 other people.
- There will be some situations in which there will be heavy competition for a small "sweet spot" on a given shot, and most likely, someone else will get it and you won't.
From my perspective, the pros definitely outweigh the cons. I get far more great shots from charters than I ever do chasing or photographing normal operations. That's not to say that normal ops don't produce great shots.....just not the percentage of keepers in the same time-span.
> A very well known rail photographer once had a
> debate with me and he mentioned that its important
> to have the best gear and spend money on charters
> so that you can outdo your "competition" (his
> paraphrased words not mine!).
That guy wasn't from Vermont, was he? LOL!
> To me that kind if
> statement is directly against everything the hobby
> stands for and what makes it fun. Yes, I have
> pictures on Railpictures.net, but do I think the
> site is the end all and be all of railroad
> photography? Frankly, and I know some will disagree with me on
> this, I think charters promote this unhealthy
> competition unintentionally.
If there is a "competition", RP is the primary venue where it exits. It might exist on Facebook, but not being a subscriber, I can't say. My impression of Facebook is, to quote one of my colleagues: "Too much noise, not enough signal."
RP.net is the most popular rail-related site on the internet. The screening process, while not perfect, is a form of quality control that other photo sites don't have, and it makes the site attractive to people who appreciate good photography. Having photos there is important if you want your images to be published. Magazine and calendar editors regularly "shop" there, and I have personally gotten a lot of opportunities because of the free publicity that the site provides. Many of the recent opportunities have come from overseas publications, which often pay more than domestic ones. On top of all of that, RP's strict standards have really improved my photography. I think I am a better shooter because of my association with the site.
> On the charters I have been on, I have been handed multiple business
> cards, and shown many pictures by individual
> photographers that I do not even know and without
> me even asking. While I understand people like to
> promote themselves particularly if railroad
> photography is a small side gig for them, I find
> it rather obnoxious. How would you feel if you are
> just looking for conversation with people who
> enjoy the same thing as you do, only to have an
> iPad, which is apparently always ready at the
> moments notice, shoved in your face with the
> individual's work?
My condolences. Perhaps I have not been riding the same charters, but I don't find most of the folks to be quite that aggressive in self-promotion.....at least not on the train. YES, we do compare images and discuss experiences. I very much enjoy the social aspect of these trips. During the trip last week, we had a very long train ride, which afforded me the opportunity to catch up with numerous friends from around the US and beyond. I enjoy seeing their pictures and when I'm not on charters, I do look at their sites and Flickr pages. I get a kick out of seeing their takes on the same trips I was on.....and on places I've never been.
> And the hobby definitely needs promoting. When I'm the youngest individual at a
> charter each time by an average of 30 years,
> something is definitely wrong there.
Mike, I know the impression that charters create. Lots of "old guys" with expensive cameras. I really think there are a lot of young people who enjoy doing this, but the reason why you don't see the charter patronage from them is simply because the young folks are just starting their careers and don't yet have the financial means (or the vacation time) to participate in these events. And yes, they are expensive. I just signed up for one event in which the train ticket alone is close to $1,500. Add in the fact that I'm going to have to fly coast-to-coast, rent a car for a week or more, and put myself up in hotels, and that deal is going to cost more than a Carnival Cruise. That's why a lot of us who do this are on the tail ends of our careers, or even retired. We have no kids, or the kids are married and gone, and we're determined to enjoy the years we have left.
Thanks for the comments. Hope to see you trackside sometime soon!
/Kevin Madore
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2018 07:25AM by KevinM.
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