Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

gothpapa Wrote:
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> Actually, I don't recall discussing the potential
> impact of Winter Specials on Chama.

I don't remember that you did - I'm just trying to add a little something to help justify running one this year or next.

> But in either case I don't see why the operator of
> the C&TS is in any way obligated to sacrifice
> itself to shore up the motels and restaurants in
> Chama.

It's not a matter of sacrifice, but of mutual benefit; if Chama lacks the amenities to support visitation, it's harder for the railroad to attract customers.   IIRC, the PRIMARY reason (or excuse) the legislators in both states used when arguing to save the railroad was to give an economic boost to two of the poorest counties in the entire U.S.; Historic Preservation was secondary. But the two are NOT mutually exclusive; "History Tourism" is a significant part of tourism in general, and the better history is preserved the better the destination can be marketed. If the railroad does something to help Chama survive the winter, the town will be better able to support the railroad the following summer. (Just imagine Chama next summer if Foster's and/or The Boaxcar Café were closed ... )

> Would a two or three day event on the C&TS in late
> winter or early spring be the event of the winter,
> or would it be part of a series of winter season
> events in the area?

Hopefully the latter; This past summer demonstrated that the D&SNG, the D&RG in South Fork, the SJ&RG in Alamosa and the C&TS were able - even on relatively short notice - to put together a series of events over ten or twelve days that attracted fans from all around the world. It's a bit late for 2011, but a little bit of planning now could go a long way toward having a nine-day "Rocky Mountain Winter Madness" in January or February 2012 - Mother Nature cooperating, of course.

> I suspect that Roger, with a foot in each camp (C&TS
> and Chama hospitality), would be in a better position
> to answer this than we are.

Amen to that - but there's no harm in lending him our moral support here on the NGDF, is there?

> Regarding “contingency planning in the event that
> the trestle is not ready by opening day,” I just
> don't see what the problem is. Unless the market
> has drastically changed since "my day" a
> significant number of C&TS patrons still have to
> come through Chama to get to Cumbres Pass. All
> that need be done is to explain that the trains
> still run -- you just have to drive a little
> farther to catch them. It’s just salesmanship.

Marketing to the general public is in MUCH better hands now than it was a year ago, but what's wrong with having a couple of special events to attract railfans? Roger can probably get a better estimate, but I'm guessing that there were 50 or 60 people in Chama for the weekend of August 27-30 who probably wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the railfan-oriented 40th Anniversary Celebration. Most of them payed for lodging, and I'll bet all of them ate several meals in town ...

> ... Later: Upon rereading your comment I notice that
> you keep using the term “fan.” I think I have pointed
> out several times now that railfans should not be
> confused with normal people and vice-versa

No one has accused me of being normal for quite some time. Just a few months ago I was honored to be recognized as a "Wild-Eyed Foamer from California".

> It is important to keep in mind that the term 'fan' is
> derived from the word fanatic, “a person whose en-
> thusiasm or zeal for something is extreme or beyond
> normal limits” ... I don’t think it is possible to have
> spent much time among C&TS passengers without
> realizing that this describes very few of them.

But we were talking about a Winter Special - hopefully including the operation of rotary OY - and this is something primarily aimed at attracting the serious railfan rather than the casual sightseer.

> My point is that the concern here should be with
> normal people, not fans. Tell the normal people
> that the Cumbres departure will knock almost two
> hours off the length of the trip, spare them the cinder
> shower, and they will be delighted. Discount the
> price (was that done in 2010?)

YES. By 10%, IIRC - for all tickets except the Antonito-Osier round trip, which was not affected by the fire.

> Or would it be possible to run the Cumbres departure
> to Toltec Siding for the published price?

But then how where do you turn the engine? IIRC, the K-36's do not have centering devices on their trailing trucks, so backing for long distances is something the crews prefer to avoid even if the engine has been run around the train. And SFAIK the trips are already plenty long enough - possibly even a bit too long - for the non-railfan customers.

> Consider also some kind of early season train-meal-
> lodging package that could be promoted in the New
> Mexico market. Maybe the Friends could work out a
> super-special rate for members who come for the
> May/June work sessions. Lots of possibilities.
>
> OK, that's enough. Maybe I should change my
> handle to "the Cumbres Rambler."

Nothing Wrong with Rambling!  I for one certainly enjoy your discussions and reading your posts about the early days of the C&TS, and I think all of us want to see the RR continue in operation and to thrive in the future!!   Besides, so far as I know the management is under no obligation whatsoever to take any of us too seriously, and every once in a while somebody's ramblings lead to something worthwhile.

So ramble on, my friend - and I shall do likewise!!

- Russo

p.s. This thread contains about four dozen posts following the one I'm responding to that I haven't read yet, so please excuse any prepetition.