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Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

December 02, 2010 08:03AM
I have seen 3 rotary runs, 1991,1993,and 1997. Having done a charter train after the 1993 run, I got a unique perspective of the operations.
While the crews were coaling up the engine at Cumbres for day 3 of the run, I sat in the truck with GM Joe Vigil, and we talked about stuff. He told me these operations were very expensive, to the tune of $10,000 per day. So 1993 was $40K. Now they did recoup about 14K from our trains, but they also had some expenses there as well.

I think the big difference that we are overlooking in this discussion is that the early runs of OM where basically fantrips, whereas the runs in 1990's were to open the railroad so they could haul tourists. These later runs covered most of the railroad where the snow was, whereas the early runs went to Lobato or Cresco, never nearing the summit. So they were both "Different" circumstances.

As John West and Jerry Day pointed out things were different in the D&RGW days, and the Rotary would be used after a huge storm where cuts and other areas were drifted so high a flanger could not be used. Flangers could sometimes keep the railroad open without the use of a rotary, but on today's C&TS it is futile to plow the line in January cause they might have to do it again in April or May. I believe thats why they did it the way it was done, about 3 weeks before opening day, so it gives some time to melt from the ties after plowing.

With the costs associated with the Rotary(which might be more than $10K today since my cost figure was 1993), I think they figure it is easier to use Soni with his snow blower, or simply pay a dozer to clear it. Even if they have to pay $1000 per day, and spend 4 days, its only $4K total, compared to $20-$40K for the Rotary.

Therefore I think the whole thing is primarily economics. They tried to defray some of the costs in 1991 and 1997 with a photo special on day 2. However that could not have been a huge amount of cash back.

In 1993 Joe Vigil told us later that yes the cost was a lot, but they did gain a lot of national exposure(for the 1991 run), and were able to open the line a week earlier. There were 3 videos made of the 1991 event which further advertised the railroad. CBS did a spot on the evening news and had a helicopter over Tanglefoot for day 2.

In summery, the neat thing about the 90's Rotary runs were that they covered so much of the railroad, and the purpose was to open the line.
The neat thing about the 70's rotaries was that they used OM, and plowed in fresh snow, more like the D&RGW days.

One other thing to keep in mind is the exhaustion factor. I know the crews were fried after most of these monster 4 day deals. In 1997 we did another little 2 day charter and they asked us to wait a day or two so they could catch their breath. Since there were only 4 of us involved we were able to do that.

Photographically, the Rotary runs were simply put-Spectacular!!! If you want to see a preview of two of them(1991 and 1997), here are the links below.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

For wedge plows (shot in 1987 and 1988) try here.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Greg Scholl
[www.gregschollvideo.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2010 08:09AM by Greg Scholl.
Subject Author Posted

On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 01, 2010 12:29PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gbrewer December 01, 2010 01:04PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

John West December 01, 2010 01:22PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on another railroad

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 01:38PM

Re: It was not my intent...

gothpapa December 01, 2010 04:24PM

Re: It was not my intent...

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 04:29PM

Re: It was not my intent...

gothpapa December 01, 2010 04:48PM

Re: It was not my intent...

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 05:57PM

Re: It was not my intent...

Ed Stabler December 01, 2010 06:15PM

Re: It was not my intent...

Samart December 01, 2010 05:43PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 07:00PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 01, 2010 07:22PM

Rotaries are not the only game

John West December 01, 2010 08:54PM

Re: Rotaries are not the only game

gothpapa December 02, 2010 07:13AM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

Russo Loco December 15, 2010 09:41PM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

gothpapa December 16, 2010 12:03PM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

BrianJ December 17, 2010 10:55AM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 11:05AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

chamafun463 December 01, 2010 08:58PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

John Cole December 01, 2010 09:22PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 09:44PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

chamafun463 December 01, 2010 09:54PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 10:05PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 02, 2010 07:24AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 07:40AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

BrianJ December 02, 2010 07:57AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 08:26AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

BrianJ December 02, 2010 07:40PM

Why....

John West December 04, 2010 11:54AM

Re: Why....

Jerry Day December 04, 2010 04:17PM

Re: Why....

John West December 04, 2010 04:29PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

wisconsinmike December 04, 2010 04:24PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 04, 2010 04:35PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

wisconsinmike December 04, 2010 05:54PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Greg Scholl December 02, 2010 08:03AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 08:35AM

Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gothpapa December 02, 2010 02:12PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Greg Scholl December 02, 2010 06:19PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 07:01PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 02, 2010 09:15PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:54PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:18PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 09:42PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:44PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 10:49PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 03, 2010 01:22AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

South Park December 04, 2010 09:30AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed... Attachments

John West December 02, 2010 09:53PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gothpapa December 02, 2010 11:08PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

John Bush December 03, 2010 05:04AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Greg Scholl December 03, 2010 07:17AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 03, 2010 07:42AM

Not one "right way"

John West December 03, 2010 10:01AM

Re: Not one "right way"

Greg Scholl December 03, 2010 10:30AM

Hopefully not "this way"

Jerry Day December 03, 2010 01:49PM

Re: Not one "right way"

rehunn December 04, 2010 10:51AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 05, 2010 11:21AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 05, 2010 11:22AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jason Rose December 16, 2010 01:51PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gbrewer December 16, 2010 02:04PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 16, 2010 02:35PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Earl December 16, 2010 09:12PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

BrianJ December 17, 2010 11:06AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 04:48PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

Jason Rose December 18, 2010 08:00PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

gothpapa December 19, 2010 10:09PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

South Park December 04, 2010 09:34AM

Timing is everything

hank December 03, 2010 08:06AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 03, 2010 01:00PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 04, 2010 09:57AM

Re: Timing is everything

D&RGW 223 December 04, 2010 12:01PM

Hey, we're ready.... Attachments

John West December 04, 2010 04:31PM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 04, 2010 07:07PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 18, 2010 11:42AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 18, 2010 12:49PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 05:15PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

gothpapa December 18, 2010 09:01PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

Earl December 19, 2010 08:50PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 19, 2010 06:42AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 19, 2010 10:04PM

1989 - The Rotary Run That Never Happened.....

Earl December 16, 2010 09:36PM

Re: 1989 - The Rotary Run That Never Happened.....

gothpapa December 16, 2010 10:02PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Russo Loco December 19, 2010 12:06PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Fritz Klinke December 19, 2010 02:59PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Jerry Day December 19, 2010 03:10PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

gbrewer December 19, 2010 03:11PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Fritz Klinke December 19, 2010 03:33PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Jerry Day December 19, 2010 04:05PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

gothpapa December 19, 2010 08:03PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - A Rotary Run that COULD Happen ...

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 12:09PM

A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 12:32PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:41PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:50PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:53PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Jim Grigsby December 20, 2010 01:51PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 08:48PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:44PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:46PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:51PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 09:06PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

gothpapa December 20, 2010 09:46PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... eye rolling smiley

Russo Loco December 21, 2010 10:59AM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... eye rolling smiley

Jeff A. December 27, 2010 07:23AM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

hank December 26, 2010 10:13PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 06:39PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 07:22PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

gothpapa December 20, 2010 08:20PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 09:16PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

gothpapa December 20, 2010 07:45PM

Re: Longer lead time needed for planning ... and ticket sales

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 08:35PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - A Rotary Run that COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:45PM

Invisible Green

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 12:49PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 20, 2010 08:00PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 20, 2010 08:30PM

One more thing before I go, Russo

gothpapa December 20, 2010 09:58PM

Re: One more thing before I go, Russo

South Park December 21, 2010 01:48AM



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