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On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

December 01, 2010 12:29PM avatar
At the thread discussing past Winter Specials on the C&TS, John West referrenced a picture taken in 1999 of the 487 derailed and darn near turned over during a spring line clearing operation. The caption of the picturte ended with the following statement regarding C&TS winter operations:

"But also something was lost in terms of the ability of the C&TS to recreate the past winter struggles of the DRGW."

Now, I ask you, who in their right mind would even want to do a thing like that? That was a deadly dangerous undertaking at best.

The fact is that narrow gauge mountain railroading using antiquated steam equipment is a hazardous undertaking even in the best of weater and under the best of conditions. Any of you guys who have done it know that.

When we (Scenic) operated Winter Events for the railfan community, they were very low-key WYSIWYG events. We actually were inspired to do this because we ourselves wanted to see a rotary in action and had the means and opportunity to do it. The goal was to give those who were sincerely interested an opportunity to see this equipment operating in winter like conditions. We made it very clear that we would not go any further than necessary to throw a little snow and create a few good photo ops, and that we would turn back at the first sign of trouble. That was it, take it or leave it. And that's what we did.

John and others mentioned the dangers to man and machine attendant upon late winter operations. To minimize these dangers we scheduled our events as early in the winter as possible. Even then we had problems, but we had no need to push our luck.

A problem that is inherent in scheduling and promoting these events is the impossibility of predicting when the conditions will be right. That's why our event in 1978 was called a Winter Special, unlike the previous three that emphasized rotary operations. We promised only to have a rotary under steam and to demo stuff as conditions allowed. And under no conditions would we go beyond easy access to the highway. As it turned out, this was our last winter event due to conditions that had nothing to do with the success or failure of that event.

Another consideration: the rotaries, both the OM and the OY, but especially the OM, are significant pieces of historic railroad equipment. IMHO, If they are ever used agian it should be very limited demonstrations under tight control, like we did in the early C&TS winter operations. Any thoughts of "recreating past winter ops" or "lets see how far we can go" should not be considered.

One final thing, then I will throw this out for discussion. Looking back on those Winter Specials that we did, I have to ask myself "What were we thinking?"

"Time spent with CATS is never wasted." -- Sigmund Freud

"Nothing endures but change." -- Heraclitus

"C'est le meilleur des mondes possibles." -- Candide



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 11:23AM by gothpapa.
Subject Author Posted

On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 01, 2010 12:29PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gbrewer December 01, 2010 01:04PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

John West December 01, 2010 01:22PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on another railroad

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 01:38PM

Re: It was not my intent...

gothpapa December 01, 2010 04:24PM

Re: It was not my intent...

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 04:29PM

Re: It was not my intent...

gothpapa December 01, 2010 04:48PM

Re: It was not my intent...

D&RGW 223 December 01, 2010 05:57PM

Re: It was not my intent...

Ed Stabler December 01, 2010 06:15PM

Re: It was not my intent...

Samart December 01, 2010 05:43PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 07:00PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 01, 2010 07:22PM

Rotaries are not the only game

John West December 01, 2010 08:54PM

Re: Rotaries are not the only game

gothpapa December 02, 2010 07:13AM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

Russo Loco December 15, 2010 09:41PM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

gothpapa December 16, 2010 12:03PM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

BrianJ December 17, 2010 10:55AM

Re: Rotary not only game - but need to do SOMETHING!!

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 11:05AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

chamafun463 December 01, 2010 08:58PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

John Cole December 01, 2010 09:22PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 09:44PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

chamafun463 December 01, 2010 09:54PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 01, 2010 10:05PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 02, 2010 07:24AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 07:40AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

BrianJ December 02, 2010 07:57AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 08:26AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

BrianJ December 02, 2010 07:40PM

Why....

John West December 04, 2010 11:54AM

Re: Why....

Jerry Day December 04, 2010 04:17PM

Re: Why....

John West December 04, 2010 04:29PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

wisconsinmike December 04, 2010 04:24PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 04, 2010 04:35PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

wisconsinmike December 04, 2010 05:54PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Greg Scholl December 02, 2010 08:03AM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 08:35AM

Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gothpapa December 02, 2010 02:12PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Greg Scholl December 02, 2010 06:19PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 07:01PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 02, 2010 09:15PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:54PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:18PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 09:42PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 02, 2010 09:44PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 02, 2010 10:49PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Will Gant December 03, 2010 01:22AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

South Park December 04, 2010 09:30AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed... Attachments

John West December 02, 2010 09:53PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gothpapa December 02, 2010 11:08PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

John Bush December 03, 2010 05:04AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Greg Scholl December 03, 2010 07:17AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 03, 2010 07:42AM

Not one "right way"

John West December 03, 2010 10:01AM

Re: Not one "right way"

Greg Scholl December 03, 2010 10:30AM

Hopefully not "this way"

Jerry Day December 03, 2010 01:49PM

Re: Not one "right way"

rehunn December 04, 2010 10:51AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 05, 2010 11:21AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

chamafun463 December 05, 2010 11:22AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jason Rose December 16, 2010 01:51PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

gbrewer December 16, 2010 02:04PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Jerry Day December 16, 2010 02:35PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

Earl December 16, 2010 09:12PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

BrianJ December 17, 2010 11:06AM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 04:48PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

Jason Rose December 18, 2010 08:00PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been re-railed...

gothpapa December 19, 2010 10:09PM

Re: Winter Special discussion has been derailed...

South Park December 04, 2010 09:34AM

Timing is everything

hank December 03, 2010 08:06AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 03, 2010 01:00PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 04, 2010 09:57AM

Re: Timing is everything

D&RGW 223 December 04, 2010 12:01PM

Hey, we're ready.... Attachments

John West December 04, 2010 04:31PM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 04, 2010 07:07PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 18, 2010 11:42AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 18, 2010 12:49PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

Russo Loco December 18, 2010 05:15PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

gothpapa December 18, 2010 09:01PM

Re: Timing is everything - and it's already ALMOST too late for this year..

Earl December 19, 2010 08:50PM

Re: Timing is everything

South Park December 19, 2010 06:42AM

Re: Timing is everything

gothpapa December 19, 2010 10:04PM

1989 - The Rotary Run That Never Happened.....

Earl December 16, 2010 09:36PM

Re: 1989 - The Rotary Run That Never Happened.....

gothpapa December 16, 2010 10:02PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Russo Loco December 19, 2010 12:06PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Fritz Klinke December 19, 2010 02:59PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Jerry Day December 19, 2010 03:10PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

gbrewer December 19, 2010 03:11PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Fritz Klinke December 19, 2010 03:33PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

Jerry Day December 19, 2010 04:05PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - The Rotary Run that Just Might Happen ...

gothpapa December 19, 2010 08:03PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - A Rotary Run that COULD Happen ...

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 12:09PM

A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 12:32PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:41PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:50PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:53PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Jim Grigsby December 20, 2010 01:51PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 08:48PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:44PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:46PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ...

mikerowe December 20, 2010 12:51PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 09:06PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

gothpapa December 20, 2010 09:46PM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... eye rolling smiley

Russo Loco December 21, 2010 10:59AM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... eye rolling smiley

Jeff A. December 27, 2010 07:23AM

Re: GREEN Snowballs ... ??

hank December 26, 2010 10:13PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 06:39PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 07:22PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

gothpapa December 20, 2010 08:20PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 09:16PM

Re: A Rotary Run COULD Happen ... thumbs upthumbs up

gothpapa December 20, 2010 07:45PM

Re: Longer lead time needed for planning ... and ticket sales

Russo Loco December 20, 2010 08:35PM

Re: 2011 or 2012 - A Rotary Run that COULD Happen ...

gothpapa December 20, 2010 12:45PM

Invisible Green

Steve Forney December 20, 2010 12:49PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

Jerry Day December 20, 2010 08:00PM

Re: On the Practicality of Operating Winter Specials on the C&TS

gothpapa December 20, 2010 08:30PM

One more thing before I go, Russo

gothpapa December 20, 2010 09:58PM

Re: One more thing before I go, Russo

South Park December 21, 2010 01:48AM



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