Well, I can't speak for any railroad's policy, but it is my understanding that the D&S wants an outside group running on their rails to have two qualified engineer/operators. On Dan's crew I believe (Dan can correct me) that Mr. Markoff and George Sapp were the two qualified engineers on E&P #4. Earl Knoob may also have been in that group. Other volunteers like Mike Ramsey ran from time to time. The D&S requires a pilot from their operating department to ride to oversee the operation. That was my assignment on this special movement that day.