Re: very early image of St Elmo depot DSPP 1881.

degg13 Wrote:
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> First, I do not know if the freight building was
> painted. In the few photos of it I'd actually
> considered it to be unpainted.
>
> Second, on the spur lengths given in Poor. I
> believe he was running with the 1889 ETT in the
> end sheets of his book, which indicate 2652'.
> However, the 1884 ETT shows 1539'. The 1884
> Colorado RR Commission shows 1540'. An 1893
> Inventory shows 2817'. The 1918 ICC map gives
> around 2400', counting both the freight
> siding/spur by the station and the Aspen mill spur
> east of these.
>
> I believe the 1300-1400' of the spurs/siding by
> the station for the freight house and large
> materials platform and teams load/unload was
> likely fixed for much of the railroad's time from
> the very start. There was no passing siding on the
> main that I've ever located; if anyone knows
> definitively of one, let me know! No picture
> around the depot indicates one was there. This is
> interesting because trains did meet here at times
> in the history of the DSP&P, and the situation
> means one pulled into the freight spur to wait for
> the other to pass. So this extra length in later
> reports seems to be something else and there are
> two candidates: the turntable track and the spur
> down to the Pawnee mill.
>
> The turntable track was put in in mid-1885 and
> pulled sometime in the 1890s, the exact date
> unknown until we find solid evidence of when the
> turntable was moved up to the tunnel sheds
> (heavily discussed elsewhere on this forum but
> never conclusively established with primary
> evidence).
>
> The Aspen mill spur shown on the 1918 map was, I
> believe, the remnant of the spur built to the
> Pawnee mill, built sometime after 1892 when that
> mill was built. The mill was wildly successful (it
> paid back the owner's $10,000 construction costs
> in the first month of operation) and I have some
> fuzzy hints ore from the Lady Murphy was shipped
> the 1.5 mile to the mill by rail. From photos and
> the HABS maps (in particular the 1915 map) my
> theory is that the spur ran down from where the
> 1918 map shows the mainline connection to follow
> along Poplar Street into town, passing in front
> of, and just beyond the Pawnee to Main Street,
> then switchbacking back up the slope to the ore
> unloading bins on the backside of the Pawnee. The
> photo on the History Colorado Online site showing
> the Pawnee taken from just east of, and showing,
> the turntable and in this photo we see the
> elevated unloading doors when they were still for
> teams--no track at the bins, but upon close
> examination you can see a track on the right side
> running from the right edge and in front of the
> mill. The original configuration? An original spur
> into town before the Pawnee was built? A later
> photo in Klinger's Gunnison book shows a UPD&G
> coal car at the ore doors, it's been switchbacked
> up to the backside of the mill now. The latest
> Bogies and the Loop have a Dr Scott photo that
> illustrates the track coming in on Poplar street
> and in front of the mill, then switchbacking to
> climb to the ore unloading doors, confirming what
> I've long theorized.
>
> So the question...was there a spur into St Elmo
> connecting to Poplar street before the Pawnee was
> built? It is compelling to think a track built to
> Main Street level would solve the steep teaming
> problem from the freight house. That jump from
> 1500' of track length in1884 to 2600' in 1889
> leaves me thinking it is possible. The 1893 jump
> to 2800' could be the switchback up to the
> Pawnee's unloading dock? Nothing solid that I've
> yet seen to confirm these thoughts.

A spur into the town centre would have been possible , I just tried a few scenarios . I've measured up the fall of the land so its accurate ( or at least as accurate as google earth pro allows us to be ) I got it so grades would have been under 4%, although any scenarios I tried would have involved quite a bit of earthworks which I doubt would have been obliterated by time, as not a lot else has changed regarding the towns layout ( although the numerous fires no doubt would have caused a lot of new building over the years.)
Given the very definite earthworks still there due to the spur, I'm doubtful this particular scenario would have taken place. Although there are few traces left of the spurs to various mines on the route itself bolsters the argument that any extended switchback might have been erased, but I'm putting that down to the grading and widening that was necessary to make a narrow rail bed into a road. if one looks at the original railbed further up the canyon its very narrow compared to the road that's there at the lower heights.
Still its an interesting scenario . One of the fun things about abandoned railroads is the work one has to put in to try and work out what took place in the past, it can be incredibly frustrating , but also really cool when one stumbles on some new piece of evidence that confirms a theory.
Romley was also rather hard to work on , as the image I have of the old Murphys Switch layout was very different form the 1918 map, dual track over the bridge, and seemingly up as far as the depot, (you can just see its end in the image of the passing trains ) but only a single track in this image, and no trace of the flat ground evident next to the loco either. Make me think either one of the images has been misidentified , which of course is always a factor that has to be taken into account. The image just doesn't fit in with the terrain or track layout, it cant be looking up the valley as there was no dual track past the station on the upward side .