Re: Speed inflation!
| August 11, 2003 05:56PM |
Hi Jerry,
I didn't say they were "lying," but you did say the old timers "would tell stories!"
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I think Earl's 35 mph is a much more believable number than plus 50. If the San Juan ran regularly at 35 mph, it's very unlikely that they would run an excursion at a higher speed. Keep in mind that most of the Rocky Mountain RR Club specials also had a gon or two in the consist and were also quite a bit longer than the normal 4 or 5 car San Juan. Even if a K-28 was capable of running at 50 mph on perfect track, those conditions didn't exist anywhere on the Grande by the 1950's.
As far as old movies being a blur, you also need to know that the silent speed for 16 mm was 15 frames per second and I think the silent speed for 8 mm was 18 frames per second. When transferred to video, the film was often run at anywhere up to 24 frames, the normal sound film speed. I expect Greg Scholl can tell us more on that score, but many video film transfers are clearly running on "fast time," especially early ones. Even if the film is not speeded up, there will be noticeable side rod and wheel spoke blur in the original image at 15 frames per second when a train is running at even 25 to 30 mph.
There is a lot of "folk lore" about railroads that gets passed on and eventually becomes "fact." Fast speed runs are part of this lore. To change the subject slightly, numerous books and magazines have quoted a maximum grade for the Cass Scenic RR of 11% and it has become a "fact," yet the company construction survey show the maximum grade to be 8% and when a friend and I did a field check with a 100 foot tape and a surveyor's level, we found the grade to be only slightly over 8% for a few rail lengths just below Whitaker station.
Unlike surveying the line, there is no way to go back and field check speed reports, other than by looking at time tables, talking to current engineers, etc. I'd say the percentage of exageration of speed on the Grande is in about the same range as the exageration of the Cass gradient, on the order of 30%-40%!
I didn't say they were "lying," but you did say the old timers "would tell stories!"
" />I think Earl's 35 mph is a much more believable number than plus 50. If the San Juan ran regularly at 35 mph, it's very unlikely that they would run an excursion at a higher speed. Keep in mind that most of the Rocky Mountain RR Club specials also had a gon or two in the consist and were also quite a bit longer than the normal 4 or 5 car San Juan. Even if a K-28 was capable of running at 50 mph on perfect track, those conditions didn't exist anywhere on the Grande by the 1950's.
As far as old movies being a blur, you also need to know that the silent speed for 16 mm was 15 frames per second and I think the silent speed for 8 mm was 18 frames per second. When transferred to video, the film was often run at anywhere up to 24 frames, the normal sound film speed. I expect Greg Scholl can tell us more on that score, but many video film transfers are clearly running on "fast time," especially early ones. Even if the film is not speeded up, there will be noticeable side rod and wheel spoke blur in the original image at 15 frames per second when a train is running at even 25 to 30 mph.
There is a lot of "folk lore" about railroads that gets passed on and eventually becomes "fact." Fast speed runs are part of this lore. To change the subject slightly, numerous books and magazines have quoted a maximum grade for the Cass Scenic RR of 11% and it has become a "fact," yet the company construction survey show the maximum grade to be 8% and when a friend and I did a field check with a 100 foot tape and a surveyor's level, we found the grade to be only slightly over 8% for a few rail lengths just below Whitaker station.
Unlike surveying the line, there is no way to go back and field check speed reports, other than by looking at time tables, talking to current engineers, etc. I'd say the percentage of exageration of speed on the Grande is in about the same range as the exageration of the Cass gradient, on the order of 30%-40%!
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488 stops for water at Los Pinos tank on closing day Oct. 1979. Photo courtesy Don Richter
The NGDF was started by Don Richter and is currently operated in his memory by Nathan Holmes and others. Others who have contributed to the upkeep of this board are (in no particular order): Charles McCandless, Everett Lueck, Ted Wilton, Cole Adams, James Bane, John Moellmer, Jon Bentz, Linn Moedinger, lloyd lehrer, Rod Jensen, John Craft, Steven Forney, Herb Kelsey, Bill Ramaley, Russ Sperry (El Russo Loco), Josh McNeal, John West, Jim Armstrong, Bob Bergstrom, Greg Scholl, Blake Forbes Doug van Veelen and Mark Fuller.