Re: New CANDIDATE Numbers for #425 -- Input please!!

Good News!!

Dave Taylor has indicated that he will be re-doing the numbering on the tender of "#425" in the next week or two to correct the narrow spacing noticed by several of us here on the forum, and has decided to take a second look at the design or style of the numbers while he's at it.  In light of Jeff Taylor's post earlier today regarding the color of numbering applied to D&RG tenders prior to July 30, 1924 (see [ngdiscussion.net]), there may be some additional delay to allow a thoughtful decision to be made regarding what color to use for the re-done numbering.

Added 07/16/21: My three candidates for replacing the current '4', '2' and '5' can be seen at [ngdiscussion.net], [ngdiscussion.net] and [ngdiscussion.net].  CR BT Dispr's reproduction of more elegant alternate versions are at [ngdiscussion.net], and variations thereof at [ngdiscussion.net].

Dave asked specifically about the shape or style of the '2', and I replied that it appeared to have been distorted by the "squishing" of the font used – apparently Benn Coifman's interpretation of Railroad Roman that was developed for model builders – from its "native" 4:4 proportion to a narrower 3:4 to go along with the D&RG specs in the late teens, so it looks like all three of the digits '4', '2' and '5' need at least a little work since none of them accurately reflects the D&RG style.*   Here's a copy of a photo of the numbers on the fireman's side of engine #424's tender many years ago, de-skewed to the best of my ability to correct for the camera angle, compared to the numbers on the engineer's & fireman's sides of engine "425" currently:


As you can see, the older four is significantly different from the present version, and both the two and the five also have differences but they're a little less obvious.  The two is also even more different from the older twos on engine #225 in the photo that Jeff posted along with the color change directive (link above).  The middle stroke of the older two is nearly level, while it's slanted upward left-to-right about 40° in the newer version and this is increased even more when the '2' is compressed horizontally to reduce its width from 24" to 18".  I've tried to find a better two and a better five in the dozens of fonts installed on my computer, but no luck so far.  Meanwhile, I have compiled some ex-Sperry-mental** variations on the numeral Four . . .

IMHO, the best example of the style of '4' used by the D&RG in the teens and twenties is the photo of engine 1 7 4 posted by Chris Walker last week, so I used that one as the target for my efforts.  Here's my justification for doing so, with the '4' from the #424 photo compared to the '4' from the Engravers Roman font from 1900 ± 10 years that was apparently the inspiration that many different railroads used as the basis for developing their own unique variations of what we foamers & modelers call 'Railroad Roman':


None of the fonts I have access to have numerals with 3:4 proportions, so I've started testing "squished" copies to see what works best.  Here are the results of my first afternoon's effort at matching a "ghost" of the '4' from the #174 photo with a squeezed '4' originally from the Engravers Roman typeface, a squeezed '4' from Coifman's Railroad Roman, and a combination of the two.  The last is mostly Engravers Roman, but using the vertical stem and the serifs from Railroad Roman:






The above are very large drawings – 24" tall at their original 200 dpi.  They're 4096 pixels wide, which the NGDF reduces to its maximum 1024 pixels wide for display.

It's pretty obvious that I blew the hybrid "nose" when developing it for the last example.  It's getting late, so I'll try again in a day or two.

Mission – or at least revision – accomplished.  The last example above has been revised, and we would appreciate your comments as to its suitability for re-numbering engine #425.  This is an attempt to replicate the numeral four applied to engine #174 by the D&RG in the late teens — though similar, it is NOT the same as the four re-designed by the D&RGW in the late thirties / early forties for cab numbers as part of their new flying 'Rio Grande' lettering scheme.

- El Abuelo Histœrico, Greengo y Curmudgeoño de los Locomoturas Viejos y Verdes,
aka Der Grossväterlich DünkelOlivGrünDampfKesselMantelLiebHabender

 *  dave2-8-0 Wrote (in a private message):
   -------------------------------------------------------
> . . .  FYI, I was the one that cut and applied the
> new lettering on #425.   We were given the cut
> files from the same company that cut the graphics
> for the 168.  I started working with the files pro-
> provided, and I quickly found that they had been
> tampered with and the vinyl cutter had tweaked &
> adjusted things to fit his output needs for the job.
> Using the D&RGW style sheet for 24" tall and 18"
> wide, and the character set provided . . .  Things
> weren't right all the way along.  Just one example:
> periods came out as vertical ovals, not round, com-
> pressed for some reason . . .
>
> My personal set of RR Roman in fact seems to
> be compiled from several different versions.
> Capital "G"'s likewise has issues.. And I think
> that 168's and 425's are incorrect, And I know
> for a fact that there were rather poorly modified
> to their current form. But they are a matched
> pair. Wrong I believe, but matching.

IMHO, especially in this case, "Two Wrongs do NOT make a Right . . . "

As noted previously, Coifman's 'Railroad Roman' was developed for model builders, NOT professional typesetters, and lacks many features – such as a kerning table – that modern font sets designed for computerized publishing include.  It's a bit of a hodge-podge, and though many of its characters resemble the older D&RG styles it is NOT an accurate reproduction thereof.  Even Coifman's "Clinchfield Narrow" variation of RR Roman does not include narrow numbers, so the 4:4 figures have to be "squished" to about 80% of their normal width to fit the D&RG specs from 100+ years ago of 18" wide × 24" tall.  Per a Bringhurst commandment – § 2.1.9 in The Elements of Typographic Style – "squishing" characters is a BIG no-no (see [ngdiscussion.net]), but given the dearth of accurate lettering & numbering information from the Post-Edwardian era of the D&RG, the tweaking of existing fonts is about the best we can do at this time.

= = = = =

**  As first noted several years ago, 'ex-Sperry-mental' means "from, or out of, Sperry's mind", although I'm sure many here on the NGDF (and elsewhere) would argue that "Sperry is out of his mind" is a more accurate translation.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2021 09:01PM by Russo Loco.