https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/index.php Tue, 28 Apr 2026 14:12:40 -0600 Phorum 5.2.20 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484921,484921#msg-484921 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484921,484921#msg-484921 [attachment 102874 img8502-Copy-Copy.jpg]]]> J.B.Bane Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Tue, 28 Apr 2026 11:21:42 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484918,484918#msg-484918 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484918,484918#msg-484918 Wadesab Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Tue, 28 Apr 2026 11:56:42 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484899,484899#msg-484899 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484899,484899#msg-484899
First off, all of them have the same 16"X20" cylinders. The standard formula for determining tractive effort utilizes boiler pressure, cylinder size and driver diameter as in this formula:

BPX.85 X Cs X (Cb X Cb)
_____________________

Dd

BP = Boiler Pressure (psi)
Cs = Cylinder Stroke (in
Cb = Cylinder Bore (in) - in this case Cylinder Bore squared (times itself)
Dd = Driving wheel Diameter (in)


This gives us the tractive effort of the locomotive - the amount of starting force a locomotive has. As a general rule a steam locomotive's power from a start is its weakest point, tractive effort is commonly used to determine tonnage ratings. Another item that is considered into this is "Factor Of Adhesion" which is a ratio of the weight on driver wheels divided by the tractive effort. An engine with lots of tractive effort, but insufficient weight on its driver wheels will slip badly and not pull well. A general rule of thumb is a well-designed locomotive will have a Factor Of Adhesion of around 4:1.

Let's start with C-17's and C-18's, engines with very different histories, built over 10 years apart, but otherwise identical. Essentially these two classes were the improved version of the early 1880's 35-ton 2-8-0. The biggest visual difference between these engines and early versions is the main driver was moved from the #2 axle to the #3. The longer main rod made the engines ride better and probably pulled better under load with the main rod not having such extreme angles to the crosshead at the top and bottom of the stroke. Both the C-17's and C-18's came with steel 145 lb. lap-seam boilers and generated 16,606 lbs of tractive effort through 38" drivers. Adhesion Factor is a respectable 3.85.

What doomed the C-17 class was the original steel boilers. The C-19 class was built in 1880 with 145 lb lap seam iron boilers. With the boiler regulation that came into play starting 1911, those old boilers could not be operated at their original rated pressure would have to be de-rated to remain in service. Derating the boilers would make them essentially useless in regular service. This problem was not limited to the C-19 class but included all the remaining C-16 class and T-12 class 4-6-0s. All of these engines had to be re-boilered to remain in service. The C-17s with their steel boilers could remain in service, so they were not reboilered. The new boilers had a higher pressure of 160 lbs, which raised the tractive power, making the C-17's relatively under powered
and therefore expendable. The one survivor is RGS #42. If #42 was reboilered, it was the only C-17 to get such treatment. Folio drawing show #42 having a 145 lb boiler to the end, however the RGS lumped #42 in with the C-19 engines (40 & 41) as far as tonnage ratings go.

As to why the C-18 class was spared is a subject for debate. Being 10 years newer, perhaps the boilers were in better shape. #315 later got boiler modifications with allowed it to have its boiler pressure increased to 160 lbs. This increased its tractive effort to 18,324 lbs, at the expense of its adhesion factor which sank to a rather slippery 3.49.

C-19's got reboilered with 160 lb steel boilers, giving them 18,947 lbs of tractive effort with a low adhesion factor of 3.30. That is going to be a slippery engine. Tonnage ratings seem to reflect this as C-18's with only 16,606 lbs of tractive effort were consistently rate higher than a C-19. From Hermosa to Silverton a C-18 was good for 210 tons whereas a C-19 was only good for 185 tons. Perhaps this why, with the exception of 340, 345 and 346 all the C-19 disappeared by the early 1940's. It was reported that the C-19's leased to the C&S were thought to be very slippery engines and did not pull as well as the C&S' own locomotives.

Lastly, let's look at RGS #20. Same 16X20 Cylinders but built quite late in the game by a different builder (Schenectady) with a whopping 180 lbs of boiler pressure. 42" drivers made her a big, powerful passenger engine for her time. Tractive effort was 18,651, weight on drivers 69,000 lbs giving an adhesion factor of 3.70. But, when the RGS got the 3 ten-wheelers, big passenger engines were not what the RGS needed. With the exception of the Ridgway-Telluride train, all RGS passenger runs were mixed trains, slugging it out with tonnage on 3% grades - which is something they were not really designed for. In addition, at 85,000 lbs. they were the heaviest engines on the railroad, before K-27's began to show up in the mid-1920's. Early on they were noted for beating up the track and for a while were banned from the north end (where the only full passenger run was) because of the damage they inflicted on the track. Reports were that the engines tended to slip badly when loaded down to maximum tonnage. However, the D&RGW had an interest in them.

The Gunnison-Montrose passenger train was pulled by various T-12's, C-18's and C-19's. The T-12's needed a helper over Cerro Summit. The C-18's and C-19's could get the train over the hill without help but had a terrible time trying to keep time on the faster parts of the run. The Grande had borrowed the T-19's for a while in the 1920's and found them quite suitable for the run and began discussions with the RGS about a trade. The Grande offered 2 worn out un-.superheated K-27's for the 3 F&CC engines. The situation was resolved by the Rio Grande giving up running the passenger train west of Gunnision and not needing the engines.

None the less, #20 soldiered on at a freight engine for the rest of its carrier.]]> Earl Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Tue, 28 Apr 2026 13:13:59 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484885,484885#msg-484885 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484885,484885#msg-484885 [attachment 102868 14202-Copy-Copy.jpg]]]> J.B.Bane Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 27 Apr 2026 04:15:46 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484873,484873#msg-484873 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484873,484873#msg-484873
The Report: for April 25, 2026

The video is here: Video of this meeting]]> Sam Seiber Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:53:21 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484845,484845#msg-484845 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484845,484845#msg-484845 [attachment 102861 IMG_5226-compressed.jpeg]
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I'm curious about the large mikados ordered from Baldwin 1946-48. Best notes that they were "one of Baldwin's last big steam orders". Really?! The locomotives look comparable and of similar size to the D&RGW mikes. Is there any more information on these locomotives somewhere?]]> rainbowroute Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sat, 25 Apr 2026 23:44:42 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484838,484838#msg-484838 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484838,484838#msg-484838 What are the diameters of the Silverton Northern railbus front pilot truck wheels and the rear drive wheel? Needed for a modeling project...
Thanks,
Ryan]]> RSS Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Fri, 24 Apr 2026 22:08:39 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484815,484815#msg-484815 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484815,484815#msg-484815 [attachment 102851 12450-Copy-Copy.jpg]]]> J.B.Bane Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Fri, 24 Apr 2026 13:10:30 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484804,484804#msg-484804 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484804,484804#msg-484804 DAVE REYNOLDS Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:12:42 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484803,484803#msg-484803 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484803,484803#msg-484803 [attachment 102847 No537.jpg]]]> Mason2-6-6t Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:12:15 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484801,484801#msg-484801 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484801,484801#msg-484801 drgw9 Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:09:36 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484782,484782#msg-484782 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484782,484782#msg-484782 The Train Tracker Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:31:50 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484769,484769#msg-484769 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484769,484769#msg-484769 [attachment 102838 qtl_1_04.jpg]
I think it's an 1889 Brooks or something?]]> Mason2-6-6t Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 27 Apr 2026 23:44:43 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484746,484746#msg-484746 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484746,484746#msg-484746
A foamer with a keyboard
-Alex]]> Alex Rymdzionek Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sun, 26 Apr 2026 11:16:55 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484743,484743#msg-484743 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484743,484743#msg-484743 2926.us]

video: [youtu.be]]]> Dave Boyer Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sat, 25 Apr 2026 09:37:17 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484733,484733#msg-484733 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484733,484733#msg-484733 [attachment 102826 img7784-Copy-Copy.jpg]]]> J.B.Bane Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Wed, 22 Apr 2026 13:36:24 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484723,484723#msg-484723 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484723,484723#msg-484723
In 2024, 340 arrived back in its former home territory for major rebuilding in the shops of the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad in Durango, Colorado.

After these brief Colorado excursions, 340 will head back home to Buena Park to serve the guests of Knott’s Berry Farm for years to come.

Join us for limited seating on one of three trips planned for this rare railroad homecoming.

As an added feature, freshly rebuilt D&RGW coach/baggage 211 will be featured in the consist behind 340 courtesy of the Hinsdale County Historical Society. No. 211 is at the end of a full restoration of the 1881 car in the D&SNG Railroad shops and we are proud to have it visiting our narrow gauge rails. 211 will return to Hinsdale County for display in July of this year.

Friday and Saturday, June 5th and 6th
Locomotive 340 excursions to Cascade Canyon will depart from the Durango depot at 9:15AM and be returning at 2:15 PM. Light snacks and beverages will be available onboard,and the complement of cars will consist of our nineteenth century vintage coaches. Seats will be sold in coach class, and all guests will have an opportunity to view coach 211 forbrief periods enroute.

Coach Fare is $170.00 for Adults and Children.

Sunday, June 7th
The Locomotive 340 Photographer’s Special is a unique event and will be departing Durango at 7:00AM and returning by 5:00PM. No. 340 will lead a small mixed consist of a freight car, caboose, and coaches. Multiple run bys and photo opportunities will be scheduled, and if resources allow may include photo ops above Cascade Canyon. A box lunch option will be provided with purchase of each ticket. Seats will be available in standard coach or caboose. Tickets are available on the Photo Special for guests 10 years of age and older, and all minors must be accompanied by an Adult.

Coach Fare is $540.00 (Seats limited to 40 people)
Caboose Fare is $650.00 (Seats limited to 6 people)

Reservation Instructions:
Please call the Durango, CO depot at 970-247-2733 to reserve your seats and receive additional information, and refer to “340 Excursion” while specifying the date of your desired reservation. Seats are limited and expected to fill, and it is recommended to reserve your seats quickly.

For a more detailed history on 340 please visit the following sites:
[locomotive.fandom.com]
[en.wikipedia.org]


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The first photo is the ROW south of the Doe River Gorge looking north.

The next two photos are of two rock cuts along the ROW looking south on the way towards Cranbury, NC, but still in TN.

The last photo an original boxcar that is displayed roadside near the ROW south of Elizabethton, TN

I also have two videos, however I can't figure out how to attach them. They are in MP4. If anyone has technical advise on how to help I'd appreciate it!

Thanks to Phil Raynes for helping with information.

Peace!



-Alan

PS. The paved roads that were the ROW are public and easily assessable!

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[attachment 102811 boxcar.jpg]]]> AlanL@K28 Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Wed, 22 Apr 2026 05:47:56 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484707,484707#msg-484707 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484707,484707#msg-484707
In 2024 I went exploring the former Tweetsie / ET&WNC RR (“Eat Taters & Wear No Clothes”).

I used a topo map and Mallory Hope Ferrell's book "Tweetsie Country" for a guide.

The dual gauge (standard & 36") ran from Johnson City, TN east to Elizabethton, TN. It was 36" from there south to Cranbury, NC. A line also went north from that point. The East Tennessee Ry took over the standard gauge part if the line in Johnson City. They still run a freight & switching operation in the area. The rails from Johnson City to Elizabethton have been removed and it is now the Tweetsie Trail bike path. The standard gauge was the home of 2-8-0's #207 and #208 which you may know as famed Southern Ry #630 and #722 respectively. Southern swapped the short line a pair of RS-3's to get the steamers back for their fledgling excursion program in the '60s

I was short on time so I only went to areas I could easily photograph or drive on the old ROW. The narrow gauge heading south from Elizabethton had a spectacular section running through Doe River Gorge. The first part of the line through the gorge is owned by a youth camp / ministry and as there were kids on premises I didn't take pictures. The ministry has re-laid some track through the gorge and does run trains on occasion. Its non original equipment, but they do own a small steam engine (or two).

The first two photos are of East Tennessee Ry (ET&WNC) enginehouse in Johnson City. Note the pit which is originally meant for 36" gauge locos and cars (according to an current employee). The pup inside was painted in neat Southern Ry inspired scheme.

The next two photos are maps of the engine house area. The track arrangement is a bit unusual, however the antique map shows that there was a wye by the enginehouse at one point in time.

The last attachment on this post is an original bridge dating from 1888 built by the Keystone Bridge Co. This is now on a public road south of the gorge.

Thanks to Phil Raynes for helping with information.

Part two to follow!

-Alan

PS. All photos on ETRY property were taken with permission
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[attachment 102807 bridge.jpg]]]> AlanL@K28 Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sun, 26 Apr 2026 22:42:52 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484696,484696#msg-484696 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484696,484696#msg-484696
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The attached photo of 478 was taken by Howard J. Wayt and apart of the Stephen Eriksen collection.]]> Owen Grenfell Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Fri, 24 Apr 2026 19:01:19 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484681,484681#msg-484681 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484681,484681#msg-484681
On March 26, 2026, 0501 was trucked to the Durango & Silverton yard after being donated to the D&S by Antonia Clark, daughter of Mr. Clark. Only stipulation was that it be returned to operation as soon as possible...and it will.

This gives the Durango & Silverton give actual, historic D&RGW Cabooses: 0500, 0501, 0505, 0540, and 04343.

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[www.durangoherald.com]]]> Jerry474 Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Wed, 22 Apr 2026 06:25:00 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484664,484664#msg-484664 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484664,484664#msg-484664 [railfan.com]]]> The Train Tracker Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 20 Apr 2026 20:26:51 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484662,484662#msg-484662 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484662,484662#msg-484662 ToltecTalk Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:20:41 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484659,484659#msg-484659 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484659,484659#msg-484659
Billy Elbrock, a resident of Chama, New Mexico, has been part of the Cumbres & Toltec Commission since 2011. He has also served as a trustee and mayor for the Village of Chama. Outside of his volunteer work, Billy is the co-owner of Fina’s Diner in Chama.

Robert Stefanski, a resident of San Luis, Colorado, with more than ten years in marketing communications, joined the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad family as the Sales & Marketing Manager in the fall of 2025.

We are so excited to share updates from our friends at the Commission and the railroad. There will be a brief question-and-answer time towards the end of the call.

When: Thursday, April 23, 2026, 8 pm Eastern, 7 pm Central, 6 pm Mountain, 5 pm Pacific

Join the meeting]]> Tom Stewart Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Tue, 21 Apr 2026 18:33:16 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484652,484652#msg-484652 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484652,484652#msg-484652
[attachment 102776 LionelTieEjector.jpg]
Source: [postwarlionel.com]


However, I've never heard of /seen a prototype Tie Ejector car. :)o

Until now.

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Ignore the CarTopper on the hopper, and look at the opening in the side of the car, at the right of the car. (:D

The image is from Progressive Railroading April 2026 issue.

A Herzog blurb from elsewhere: "The Automated Tie Unloader is the industry's first maintenance-of-way unit to feature autonomous, singular track tie placement. Paired with the new Cartopper 2.0 and pulled by the Multi-Purpose Machine, these innovations work together to deliver smarter, safer, and more efficient solutions."]]> Rader Sidetrack Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 20 Apr 2026 16:51:47 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484651,484651#msg-484651 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484651,484651#msg-484651
Rather than bug Mark, I thought I would ask here - anyone know where this is located?

I'll be driving to Denver soon for the Sn3 conference and would enjoy poking around the remains of the wreck. I have no interest in disturbing what's there, or taking anything away other than pictures.

Please feel free to PM me if you would rather share this info privately.

Thanks!]]> gregcoit Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 20 Apr 2026 08:32:42 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484622,484622#msg-484622 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484622,484622#msg-484622 [attachment 102765 img3092-Copy-Copy.jpg]]]> J.B.Bane Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Sun, 19 Apr 2026 13:09:58 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484614,484614#msg-484614 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484614,484614#msg-484614 Mason2-6-6t Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum Mon, 20 Apr 2026 12:11:05 -0600 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484602,484602#msg-484602 https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,484602,484602#msg-484602
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